Delilah or Victor at center?

In another thread, Evelyn - Zim - Delilah - Victor - Alasie wss proposed as a defense team. I questioned whether Victor might be the better tank there.

Thoughts?

No, Delilah is a better tank.

'splain, Lucy.

Old TV reference

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If Delilah gets to fire her special, the whole team benefits and becomes that much tougher to kill. Victor though, just pretty much helps himself.

I’ve still never run across a Victor tank so I could be completely wrong. Give it a shot for a few hours and see how things go. Would be interested to hear how it turns out.

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There it is. Victor = selfish.

Lol, that’s why I set him to flank Delilah! :joy:

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Victor has the defense buff 30% for all allies just like Kiril. It’s good but agree with your evaluation on Delilah being the better tank

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haha forgot about that. Ok, perhaps he’s not so selfish after all.

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Wow, I somehow had forgotten the defense buff too. Which is significant for a very fast mana hero.

Victor has very fast mana and defense buff, that’s great. He makes a good flank to Delilah who has huge defensive stats and a heal, plus minions.

She has all that. Why do her stats stand out vs Vic?

Delilah 737 704 1345

Vic 779 671 1347

His very fast mana with a mana troop at 11 has him firing his special quickly with a second shot a possibility before Delilah lights up once. This means his defense buff shields her before she heals.

Given that raid teams have found Guin easy to kill, poor Delilah needs a shield. Vic getting extra hits as raiders try to kill the tank helps the team stay alive waiting for the heal.

Just my crazy opinion

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Delilah has slightly better toughness, her shield stat. And she heals and provides meat shields with her minions. When she’s up front tanking, her mana charges nicely in order for her to heal up and summon minions. Victor is a great flank for her at very fast mana and providing defense buff. Delilah isn’t a flank hero with average mana.

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Victors defense buff is significantly less useful when he replaces Delilah as tank. Delilah will charge slower as flank so your team doesn’t get the heal as quickly. With average mana healer tank and very fast mana defense buff flank, the synergy is just better. Especially considering their colors. Purple in 4* doesn’t really have hitters besides Tiburtus. Whereas yellow 4* heroes have hitters in chao and li xiu. So against the average opponent a yellow tank is tougher than a purple tank.

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Also, more people have Jackal than Panther.

I do agree, Delilah as tank with Victor flanking is a much better setup. Her defense is better and she provides minions. Plus, with Victor flanking, he’ll still go off in time to up everyone else’s defense.

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Not sure where 4s came in to this. Original post is a 5 team.

One of the points to be made against Delilah (and Vivica) is that many raiders have found doubling dark against Guinevere and the yellow healers works. By putting Victor in center, that attack strategy is weakened. And, putting a holy pair like Jackal/Joon may worry the vampire, but he should get off one special buffing thd defense team and Delilah faces to weak attackers.

The real advantage of putting Victor at the center is that Panther debuffs AoE, while Jackal is a single target debuff. So if you stack Panther and Sartana against Delilah, Panther’s debuff is going to hurt Victor a lot. While if you stack Jackal and Joon against Victor, then Delilah won’t suffer a similar debuff.

If Victor would be the tank we would have a mid/low damaging special and nothing more, as he would be killed before he could gain heals back from his special. Delilah would hardly go off and he would only leave a short DEF buff for his team.

If Victor would be a flank it’s reasonable to think he would cast his special on injured foes, killing the ones with low health, preventing the survivor to regain a full recovery and granting his buff giving to Delilah’s minions a better value due to their host’s increased defense.

If Delilah would be the tank her minions would start to stack, giving extra life to the defending heroes that would stay until removed by damage, while also healing herself.
Victor wouldn’t have any problem to go off as flank due to his speed.

Delilah would not have to fear G. Panther’s effect as long as Zimkitha would be her flank, the same could be told for Victor with Jackal.

Delilah as flank would heal hardly and she would be likely to heal only 4 heroes as Victor would be dead by long time, his DoT cleansed/expired and his damage dealt on “fresh heroes” recovered.

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Victor’s quite likely to fire twice before he dies, unless the offense gets a very good board. After the first time he fires, his defense becomes an effective 872, which is super tanky (making him much more likely to survive to the second special). That’s actually quite a reasonable damage output, and it refreshes the defensive buff. He not GM, but he’s not awful.

Guardian Panther’s hit comes with a buff removal. So even if Victor fires on flank, his buff will get stripped as part of a natural attack sequence on Delilah.

Remember also that Zim on defense fires whenever her Mana is full, with a fairly weak AoE. If she’s about to fire, you can simply hold Guardian Panther’s special until after. So I wouldn’t trust in that cleanse protecting against Panther.

Victor is likely to fire twice, yes… maybe even more.
Two hits from Victor on the same target could deal as much damage as a hit from Sartana so we could say that his direct damage isn’t his strong point.

He would gain defense, yes. Delilah wouldn’t gain such defense at the 3rd round against the 2nd round by having Victor as tank? Just like Gravemaker he is very fast, he could cain better survivability from his special (+30% DEF agains +5%) and just like Gravemaker he gives his best when flanking, to avoid teams directly tailored to defeat him.

But unlike Gravemaker if Victor fires 2 or even 3 times he wouldn’t cripple attacker’s team, for this very reason it’s better to put him near a solid tank to avoid lose unnecessarly many defense due to his lack of impact on tank’s spot.

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I think @FraVit93 explained it.

A tank should either

  1. Heal allies as much as possible/ reduce mana of enemy/ or is somehow otherwise durable (‘the wasting time while my buddies charge up approach’)

or

  1. Damage enemies as much as possible (‘the kill as much as possible before I go down approach’ eg GM).

Buffs are nice, but are secondary to those two main aims in my humble opinion.

Victor does not do 1) and isn’t very good at 2).

His defence boost is great though, but does not really serve the purpose of a tank based on the above criteria.

The only way he would overcome his lack of 1) or 2) is if his natural defence was ridiculously high.

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