Definition of defensive buffs

We have several heroes now which related to “defensive buffs” and it would be useful to know which ones of these apply in any given situation.
As has been discussed before with the Mitsuko situtation I’m fairly certain that a reflect would be classed as a defensive buff, and while i’m not surprised at the outcome of this I would rather it had gone the other way.

Costume Kadilen’s special gives a chance to dodge, which I’d imagine would be a defensive buff; however that is not the case. As you can see here:

While this could be a bug if it is meant to be a “defensive buff”, it would be nice to have clarity on this.


Thanks for posting this.

I’ll add that the newest update confirms that elemental reflect is now classified as a bypassable defensive buff. So, why is dodge not considered a defensive buff? It’s a buff, without a doubt, and it serves a defensive purpose—to give a chance to avoid taking damage.

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From the Mitsuko Thread:

I’m pretty sure that it takes the phrasing “defensive buffs” super literally…

So because Kadilen’s dodge buff doesn’t affect the defence stat nor is it one of the specific exceptions (counterattack & reflect) it doesn’t trigger the processing of “pierce” talent/ ability.

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I suspect that might be the case, but it would be nice to have a list of what was what; rather than having to guess what your ability was going to bypass.

I believe it should be viewed as the same as the tournaments define buffs. If in the buff tournament it gives you the attack bonus, it is then considered a buff and should be bi-passable. There are many inconsistencies with this topic and a deeper depth of defining the code needs to be explained/fixed.

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Or if the card action order is truly what is intended, the damage is done before the bipass and then both dodge and reflect should be able to work against Cobalt. The developers need to visit this and fix the inconsistency.

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If they were worded the same, then yes I would agree… But they use distinct wording:

  • Tournaments do not descriminate. It is simply “buffs”

  • This specificially states “DEFENSIVE buffs”

A ≠ B

So no “inconsistency” there.

Don’t ask me WHY they made the distinction because I’m just a player. Above is simply my observations of what CAN and DOES count as a defensive buff based on it triggering the bypass from Cobalt or Finley (or other rangers).


I guess my question is, how is reflect a defensive buff then?
There is no stat change, and if ninjas are available every other month, this Cobalt issue is only going to become more problematic and there will need to be a counter.

Sure, but by that strict definition then reflect isn’t a “defensive buff” because it doesn’t alter the defense stat at all.

But now they’ve changed that. Despite it not being intended originally.

So dodge, dancing, ghost, etc. should all be considered defensive buffs in the same way. Because that’s what they are. They improve the overall survivability of the opposing heroes.

It wasnt :slight_smile:

If you read thru the thread I quoted from the behaviour was buggy…

Essentially if there was no defensive buff, it wouldn’t process the chance to bypass. If there WAS a defensive buff it processed the chance to bypass. If successful, it would bypass EVERYTHING, even those buffs not intended to be bypassed originally (like the reflect),

So really, the change hasn’t fixed the underlying issue which is that the Pierce ability, when successful, bypasses ALL buffs, not just the “defensive” buffs.

I know… and that was the whole point of the Mitsuko thread… Mainly that it wasn’t consistent.

And as I said above, the “fix” by adding Reflect to the Buffs which can trigger the processing of the Pierce chance doesn’t fix the issue… which is that if the Pierce ability is successful, it bypasses ALL buffs. Not just the “defensive” ones.

Link back to the original Mitsuko / Reflect vs. Pierce Chance thread: [Solved - V33 Update] Reflect buffs can only be bypassed by Ranger Talent, Ninja troops, etc. IF there's another defensive buff casted on top of it

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