# Decrease enemy defense question

Hi all,

I have a question about the skill which decreases enemy’s defense.

Firstly, less defense for the same element. For example, Panther Guardian will cause -34% defense against Dark. If you have 2 Panther Guardians, what is the enemy’s defenseless percentage after both heroes strike with their Special Skill? Is it going to be -68% (34% + 34%) or it’s just going to be -34% afterall?

Another similar example is if you have Panther Guardian and Louhi (-24%). What is the percentage if Louhi strikes first and then Panther Guardian?

Also, what hapens if you have heroes who have Special Skill which cause less defense for all elements (eg Morel with -34% for all elements) combined with less defense for a particular element eg Guardian Panther?

I’d really appreciate all comments. Have a good day all.

Independently, each does this

• -34% defense against Dark from Panther: from 100% → 66% defense against Dark
• -24% defense from Louhi: from 100% → 76% defense

Combined, they stack like so.

66% × 76% = Net 50.16% defense (Effectively a 49.84% defense drop)

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I will just add to what @IgH already wrote that elemental defense down (Panther) and regular defense down (Louhi/Morel) will stack. But the same effects will just overwrite each other. If you fire two Panthers, the elemental defense down will be the same -34%. If you fire Louhi and Morel, the final defense down will be the one from the hero you fired last, as they will overwrite each other.

So you can combine elemental defense down with regular defense down for higher damage. But similar effects will overwrite each other.

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Thanks very much IgH. So after you fire both Panther C and Louhi, enemies’ defense will be -49.84% total?

Thanks StillVictor. So you’re saying that Panther C will over-write each other instead stack up?

Only for your dark heroes’ attacks and dark tiles the defense down will be stacked and at 50,16%, the other elements will just have the 76% defense going by the example above.

Yes, the same types of defense down overwrite (so G panther and G panther don’t stack) Only if you have someone who does uncleansable Def down (like guan yu) it can’t be overwritten

Yes, that’s correct.

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This is why i struggled with maths at school How does stacking -34% and -24% come out at a combined 49.84% drop in defence?

Math is crazy, but that’s how it goes

So this is the fun part. While many do override each other, there are quite a few that actually don’t even though they seem as if they do the same thing.

Standard DD like Morel, Louhi, Ma’at and numerous others do override one another. However, if used with a villain for instance like Asterius, his corrosive burn damage in which defense is lowered does not override standard DD.

Now when it comes to mana there are so many different ways that do not override each other in which heroes can obtain mana.

1. Standard Mana generation

Hippo’s ability would be overridden by heroes like Myoin, Ariel and cAlberich

2. Volume Mana in small or moderate

cAriel would be overridden by heroes like Toxicandra & Hawthorne

3. Mana Regeneration (not to be confused with standard manager generation) (Regeneration & Generation are different)

4. Regeneration Counter Attack

Same as c²Obakan but it’s the counterattackability that overrides the other counter attack ability not so much the mana aspect, but it does override as a result

5. Inherited Minion Mana

Same as Hulda and I believe the minions are independent from one another so I do not think Hulda and Phorcys override eachother

6. Passive Mana Boost

Same as Milena and it is an instant effect in which cannot be overridden

7. Variable Based Mana - Enemy Special Skill

Mana is based on a specific occurrence in this case the enemy using their special skill and would also be an instant effect.

8. Variable Based Mana - Enemy Killed

Queen G is a buff with Tetisheri is an ailment I believe and would not override each other.

9. Progressive Mana

I believe this would not be overridden but if somebody knows for certain I do not have Ludwig and have not tested or I am simply just not aware.

10. Stealing Mana

This could be overridden by Onatel & Xneda

So there you have it 10 different ways in which I hear it can gain manna without overriding another heroes ability to do the same in a different way. Definitely some tricky stuff here but the potential of what you can do with 5 years is pretty extreme and something everyone should be aware of.

Hope this helps & take care!

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An addition: element link mana regen and small amount (some hotm) which stack too

The counterattack mana doesn’t overwrite as they are two separate buffs, just the regular counterattack with X % damage part does

Give Jove back his power!!!give Jove back his power!!!give Jove back his power!!!give Jove back his power!!!

Looks like SG has reworded Alby’s special. Here’s my current Alby:

I just tested it in 8-7 and can confirm that Albys moderate mana generation buff overwrites Gramps’ small mana generation buff and vice versa.

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I meant to put that in there thank you @Zack I totally forgot cuz that post was so long lol.

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Great post @Ghost

Nice way to impart knowledge and teach.

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I always try my best, but that’s a different Ghost.

My cousin @G_H_O_S_T

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Hahaha sorry about that guess I hit first ghost I saw.

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Lol you’re welcome, don’t hit the first Ghost you see, your fist will go straight through them and you could break a window or damage your hand