Deciding where to spend your class emblems - Tourney update 2019-Mar [Math, Analysis]

You are mostly right. I think there are some raid events with 5* heroes, but with limitations such as: No Holy heroes or Healing has no effect.

The point I was actually trying to make was that the reallocations are only temporary because beta accounts are temporary. They can freely reallocate all of the emblems, lose emblems in the transfer and when beta reboots for the next session, your real account gets recopied over. That means that the reallocation, in effect, never occurred as the changes were made on a temporary account and not on your real account. When the next beta session starts, all of the emblems will be back where they were prior to you reallocating them to the 3*. This is why people are doing it. There are no permanent losses or effects from doing so.

In beta you can literally feed all of your heroes to Aife and when the next session starts, you’ll have all of your heroes again.

Resets want to be free…

…or at least on a timer.

I understand why Devs chose the reset system they choose. I just very strongly disagree with it.

There is inventory management due to game play, or storage limitations, but in my opinion their decision actually cost them monetization by making it so difficulty, accident prone, restrictive, and frankly not fun.

My hope is this topic will mitigate some of the damage their emblem reset choices have caused.


Here is a link to a new thread I started. I uploaded my talent spreadsheet for you all to use. If it saves one person gems from not having to reset a hero then it is a win.


Tourney update

I have updated this topic with Tourney information.

Up until now, I was just using my emblems on my most used heroes, most being 5* and a few 4* s (wu, falcon and boldtusk).
Since I have no problem completing any part of the game as it is (I am level 63 and even as c2p that means quite a big roster of maxed 4 and 5* s).
Now, I am thinking about saving up for raid tournaments, use them on my defenses there (in beta you earned defense points) and getting a chance to get a high ranking and earning new emblems.
So, sort of spreading them out to progress faster in gaining them. Does that make any sense? Lol, anyone else having the same idea?

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Tourney defense teams

This should probably be its own topic, but some things to consider.


Rumors say the prizes will be random. Just like you can get 3x Emblems from a rare chest or 50x Emblems from a rare chest, the Average emblems per day from Tourneys is going to suck. Even if you finish Top 1%, you are likely to get 20x Emblems - the most common Top 1% Emblem prize rumored in Beta - which is 2.85x Emblems per day.


Rumor says the current plan is zero re rolling. So luck will play a large part in your ranking. This is awesome for shaking up the top 10,000 spots - in the case of Tourneys probably the Top 1% depending on participation - but sucky from a Return On Investment for Emblems.


Rumor says tournaments will eliminate colors. If your roster is heavy on purple heroes, and purple are banned that week, you will not be doing well. Since Wu Kong, Wilbur and Proteus are such powerful RNG paywall, and gem paywall, heroes, Tourneys banning them will have a big shake up.

This is why I am so excited about 1* / 2* Tourneys since none of the heroes are behind a RNG paywall, or gem paywall.

Emblem reset

I strongly disagree with the Devs reset decisions. But it is what it is.

If you do not like Tourneys, or your roster is bad at Tourneys, you will have used your Emblems on five heroes requiring 5x reset Emblems.

With one exception.

IIRC from my Sigrunn 1*+20, For 1*+1 to 1*+9 you receive all your Emblems back for 1 gem. While 1*+20 returns 19 - a loss of 1 Emblem - for 2 gems.

Opportunity costs

So I am excited to create 2x rainbow 1* teams - usable in 1* / 2* Tourneys - and 1x rainbow 2* teams - usable in 2* Tourneys. Eventually bring them up to 1*+15 and 2*+15.

This will allow me to be competitive in 1* / 2* Tourneys with the lowest Emblem investment. Since the Prizes are the same, but using the lowest opportunity cost, I increase my average profits.

Future proof

While no guarantee, I do not see the Devs adding more 1* / 2* heroes, so my sunk cost will be future proof.

3* / 4* true levels

Due to true levels, there is a nature break point between 3* / 4 * heroes.

A 2*+20 hero has roughly the raw stats of a 7/8 3* 3.50 hero. But a 3*+20 has roughly the raw stats of a 4* 3.60 hero.

So a 2*+15 hero will be useful in some 3* Tourneys. But a 3*+15 or 3*+20 hero will be significantly less useful in a 4* Tourney.

It is highly likely the Devs will introduce X*+40 in the future, but depending on how it is done, the investment costs and resulting stats are unknowable at this time.



I was wondering about starting a new topic, but since you updated with raid tournaments, I thought it might fit.

Maybe @zephyr1 can split the topic?

I don’t remember the numbers from the last version, but I thought chances were better for more and maybe they changed it from our feedback

I think this is only true for the 5* tournaments. I have every tc20 4* maxed and a few event 4*s, if you play long enough, you’ll collect them from tc20 (it took me almost a year to get my first Grimm, he was my last).

Last beta didn’t have 1 and 2* tournaments, I wouldn’t be opposed to them, but would like a heads up if they are going to be in there (have to prepare :wink: ).

I like the tournaments, I just didn’t/don’t like the continu fee, this part for me will depend on what made it to the life game (the last version wasn’t as bad as the one before).
So, I’d probably leave the emblems on the heroes for the most part.

Because of my roster (all 3*s maxed too), this doesn’t matter to me.

Do you really think they’ll do the 1 and 2* tournaments?

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Beta is Beta

All the rumors are Beta rumors.

Alliance War took a long time to settle down and it was twice a week.

Really hard to know until a year of live server since tourneys are once a week.

Especially if the rules are set by RNG instead of a rotation. With RNG rule selection, You could have ten weeks of 5* Tourneys in a row.

Personally I would not mind a tourney twice a week or daily.

1* / 2* Tourney

I will be sad if they do not. Tim seemed to imply they want 1*+20 heroes to be useful:

Emblems are a bit different and may still evolve. That was intended for all heroes of all rarities, something for everyone. We keep looking at feedback on emblems. Emblems are now given very slowly to see how they change the game. We are being very careful with them.(linky, linky)


It looks like for where you’re at so far in conversation, this can live here. If this develops enough to warrant its own thread then I’ll be happy to split it off. :slight_smile:


Beta being beta, I thought I heard the 1 and 2* tourneys were going away.

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Not Practical

The rumor I heard was Beta testing of 1* / 2* Tourneys were a complete an utter failure since most Beta testers have 5x- 15x 5* 4.80 but zero 1* / 2* and very very few have any 3*. Beta tends to favor high players. High level players just tend to be more experienced, knowledgable and communicative then lower level players. In fact this may have foreshadowed the tourney matching bug since the few low level accounts in Beta were rumored to be hit many many times in 4* Tourneys.

Similar to trying to test Facebook invites in Beta, just some testing in Beta is just not practical. Or testing Season 2 Province 24 in Beta, no new coding, so not really the purpose of Beta testing. Like most games Empires involves inventory management. Beta testing 4* / 5* tourneys is a much better use of the Beta community managers time. Eventually it all has to go to the live server.


It really did not take long to level up more than enough 2* for the raid tourney in Beta. The real problem was the lack of variety in 2* heroes. There really was not much variance in teams and I don’ think its really worth spending the time to develop more regular 2* heroes or event 2* heroes. I know I’d be a bit upset if I got some event 2* in a 10x summons I paid for.


My very good friend said 95% of the 2* defenses they fought in Beta were 2* 1.1 and it was even worse for 1* Tourney.

Considering 1* heroes have classes, I expect Devs to add some use for emblems on 1* heroes no matter how much high level players dislike it.


Encouraging emblems on 1* and 2* makes it less likely very new players will spend gems on elemental summons or on those packages that include 3* heros. It does give the very new players something to do, but only temporarily for 1*/2* tourneys, only once or twice?! It really doesn’t take long to get a rainbow 3* team if one is willing to spend 1x or 2x 300 gems on elemental summons to fill a gap. And one’s rainbow 2* team is available for stacking in 3* tourneys and to guarantee a 2*/3* healer is available.

For the current 3-star tournament, I went ahead and opened one node on each of the heroes in my defense squad. Since I can get them back for one gem with no penalty, and most of those emblems were just rusting on the shelf, I think the chance of a couple more points in the tourney is worth it.


Latest Correction

Should have been:

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@Gryphonknight - so on a 3* - to confirm I understand this - you can go all the way to 3-14 without hitting a reset penalty in emblems (i.e. just gems)?

Where is this point of no return on 4*?


Does this chart make it more understandable?

Emblem chart

*= 100% of emblems returned for 1- 2 gems.

Click for Emblems per node and totals for 1* to 5* Heroes

I get it now - I missed the asterisk. Thanks!

So anything past 3.1 results in having to pay an emblem penalty on a 3*. All 4* and 5* incur the penalty.

General rule: once you have 20 emblems invested in a hero, then 5% > 0.999 and so you’ll lose at least 1 emblem.