Deciding where to spend your class emblems [Math, Analysis]


#21

I am so honoured :blush: (I am not worthy lol) to be added to your post. Thank you so much to you and all the other number crunchers who provide the basic framework for us all to decide how to have fun :smile:


#22

Actually, Monk Wu Kong 4*+1 will not be great on war/ raid defense and my Rogue Guardian Jackal is really close to 4* 4.80.

So I will go Rogue Scarlett 4*+1, Rogue Jackal 4*+1, then take Rogue Scarlett to 4*+19, both are so fragile, even Evade 4% will increase their survival.

Once Wu Kong is 4*+15, I will swap Jackal 4*+1 for Wu Kong 4*+15.

Edit:
Peters is also a Rogue. Might go Rogue 4*+1 on Scarlett, Jackal, Peters then take Rogue Scarlett to 4*+19


#23

I must be missing something about Agwe. While he might be improved by his class talent more than some heroes, he seems to be the Dawa or Renfeld of Atlantis 4* heroes. I’m only keeping a copy of him because I’m a hoarder, not because I ever expect to level him up, unless it is because I’m truly desperate to have a hero of that class for some quest.

It would take a LOT of improvement to Agwe to give him value except as food for another Grimm. Or what am I missing?


#24

He hits all heroes for 190% DMG and is average. Lvl 20 talent grid means 9 tile charge with a lvl 17 Mana troop. Focus the talent grid on his attack stat and pair him with a defense debuffer.

Just a thought tho.

Course the cleric I’m working on is Rigard.


#25

Maybe I am wrong but I think there is only one classic 5* sorcerer: quintus
The others 5* are mitsuko, lady Locke, Morgan, Natalya, rumplel and Thoth


#26

@Gryphonknight Thanks so much! Wish I had seen this two weeks ago instead of spending so much time coming to roughly the same conclusion. By and large, 4*s are the way to go on emblems.

I do think the argument for giving emblems to your most used 5* (such as Gravemaker) bears weight. But even with my Gravemaker, I will feed Grimm the first emblems.

Do you think a +19 or so Boldtusk will replace a 4*80 Ares for general usage? Given the health/defense track, BT’s survivability stats will be much closer to Ares (roughly 60 stronger than Ares on Defense and 140 weaker but still 1300 on health). Similar Att buffs, BT’s 28% instant heal on everyone is probably more desirable than Ares’s heal 3 over 4 turns + crit chance.


#27

Peer review

Peer review is never wasted time. Thanks for checking my work.

Completing Class quests with 4*+15

You also want to be able to complete, preferably cheaply, all Class quests to get even more emblems.

I stopped leveling purple 4* Ameonna - a niche Sorcerer - because I am leveling more important 4* purple heroes including Sorcerer Sabina and - if RNGoddess smiles on me - Sorcerer Cheshire Cat.

Often a 4*+15 will help you complete a class quest when a 5* 4.1+ is the wrong class, wrong color, wrong special skill.

Decisions, Decision or Each account is unique

This post is meant to be a starting point, and to explain sufficient information, for you to make your own decisions.

Efficiency

While true, 4*+19 are the most efficient, as I am very fond of saying “It depends on your roster and your situation”.

I would never take Rigard to 4*+01 if I had 2x Ariel 5*+01 and 2x Delilah 5*+01 ( together they fight crime ).

Clones of good 4* Heroes

Ariel is a 5* Rigard in blue. Tarlak is a 5* Wu Kong in green. Athena is a heavily nerfed 5* Grimm in blue. Zeline is a 5* Scarlett crossed with a 5* Caedmon.

As a general rule, if I had a 5* clone of a really good 4*, when I got the 5* clone to 5* 4.80 I would refund all the emblems on the 4* hero and give them to the 5* clone.

Once again, it depends on your roster of 4*/ 5* heroes, their color and their classes.

Talents and special skills that go well together

Fighter- Delilah,
Paladins- Ares, Aegis,
Ranger- Alasie, Athena, Evelyn.

All these heroes have 5*+1 talents that go really, really well with their 8/8 special skill. I would immediately take them to 5*+1 ( if I had them leveled to 5* 4.80, but that is another discussion ).

I would consider taking them to 5*+15, instead of a similar hero to 4*+15, depending - all together now - on how many, what colors, and what gaps, I had in my 5* 4.80 roster.

Different classes

Fighter Boldtusk and Paladin Ares are two different classes.

Fighter Boldtusk and Fighter Delilah

Fighter Boldtusk and Fighter Delilah are two of the best combination of a talent and a 8/8 special skill in the game. I would immediately take Fighter Boldtusk and Fighter Delilah to at least X*+1.

Paladin Ares and Paladin Aegis

Paladin Ares and Paladin Aegis depend a lot on your specific roster, especially gaps.

I said I would never level the released version of Aegis, but I desperately need his shared damage, heal, and HP vamp to complete two of the class quests. The Paladin talent grid only improves him for these tasks and increases his effectiveness in getting me Paladin emblems from class quests. For Justice quest- blue is strong versus red mobs/ neutral versus purple mobs.

Paladin Ares is a healer in a class with few healers. Even at 5*+1 Ares would be much better at defeating the Bosses on the Challenging stage of two class quests ( Richard and Justice ). For Serenity quest- red is strong versus green mobs/ but weak versus blue mobs.

Notes


Wonderland Heroes - Will they make your main team? What do you think of Cheshire Cat, Alice, Queen of Hearts QoH, The Hatter, Captain of Diamonds? How do they work? [MASTER]
#28

This is very good for players with like maybe max. five 5* heroes.
When you have 30 or more 5* heroes maxed:
I am not going to spend a single emblem anywhere else than on a 5* hero.
If I want to play with 4* heroes I got my second (or even third) account for that. Many high level players have.

I enjoyed reading the post though Gryphon. Appreciate your work and time. @Gryphonknight (stop calling Aegir Aegis and hush about Ariel) :slight_smile:

PS: it is important how the player perceives the game. For me it is map battles + titan = 95% of it.
Hate Raids and Wars. Big difference in assigning emblems to heroes.

My advice for beginners: all emblems to BRIENNE and KAILANI or GUNNAR!


#29

How do I teach my iPhone and my windows machine at work, er, at my desk, to stop doing autocowreck ?

As I said, this is general advice and will not apply to every account.

But I still strongly advise assigning emblems to 4*/ 5* heroes that help you complete class quests and “weekly raids that reward emblems” ( gosh calling them raids is confusing. Wish they had consulted a thesaurus, see note )

The easier and cheaper - in terms of energy spent and battle items - it is to get more emblems, you more you CAN get.

Gryphonkit, my wife, could not complete the last class quest’s challenging stage because she did not have enough 3*/ 4* ingredients for the battle items she needed. If she didn’t need those battle items, she would have gotten 16 total emblems.

Notes

Level up, level down
(http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0012.html )


#30

Thank you, thank you and thank you! I love your info and the way you explain things. I am still confused as to how emblems are going to help the alliance, but I just need time to find/read the info.
Oh, did I say thanks?


#31

More powerful alliance gets better loot

4* heroes are the back bone of empires ( see notes )

4*+19 heroes are roughly as powerful as Classic 5* 4.80 heroes.

So 4*+19 heroes let you defeat higher level titans and get much much more loot ( one player on the forum claims 10* titans drown you in 3* ascension items - see notes for math ).

Better titan loot lets you level more 4* 4.70 and 5* 4.80 heroes.

More 4* 4.70 and 5* 4.80 heroes let you use more emblems.

Which let you get more emblems for less energy and less 3*/ 4* ingredients spent.

It is a classic example of the more powerful your alliance is in the game, the more loot your alliance gets.

Since it is easier to get good 4*+19 heroes, this removes the problem with getting good 5* heroes.

F2P

Since most emblems are equally available for F2P and P2P accounts, this reduces the F2P account’s reliance on lucky summons to build up a good roster of 10* titan killing heroes.

Notes

4* Heroes are the backbone of Empries

Some heroes are good, some suck, most are just okay.

RNG decides if you get good 5* Heroes.

You get three times as many 3* ascension items as 4* ascension items.

Legendary training gives you, on average, a 4* hero every ten days.

Gem summons have better odds of getting good 4* heroes ( looking at you Rigard, Wu Kong, Jackal, Hansel, Proteus, Wilbur, etc. ).

The game makes it easier to get good 4* heroes than good 5* heroes.

4* 3.60 heroes are the most powerful heroes in the game with 1*/2* ascension items.

4* 4.70 heroes are generally more powerful than 5* 3.70 heroes and require similar Hero XP to level.

Personally, I have been playing since 2017-Sep and still do not have any green 5* hero, any Splash damage 5* hero, a second 5* healer, and I am drowning in sucky - or okay - blue 5* heroes. One of my two good 5* heroes is a solo hero, his special ability does not help his team.

4* Heroes are the backbone of Empires

Titans are king

#32

Thank you. I thought there was more then that going on. Lol. I took it to mean that emblems somehow were effecting the % of certain items in loot…just by being in use. Now I see I really took that wrong, and it is same old strength gives better loot.
Thanks for the explanation! Appreciate how quickly too!
May good luck find you.


#33

Thank you for asking.

My dad the professor always says “Ask your question, many of your classmates have the same question, but will not ask since they assume everyone else understood”.

By asking me to clarify, you helped many lurkers who assumed they were the only person with that question.


#34

Just found this. Have you elaborated on the classes populated with “less popular” heroes?

My take on the promised rebalancing is that those are the heroes to watch. It would amount to a rebalancing of the classes imo.


#35

Defense

As we understand color stacking better it is clear that A.I. defense team heroes - which always have colorless attacks - benefit more from a defense stat emphasis in class nodes and defense stat 3*/ 4* troops since colorless attacks do not get the non linear attack bonus from color stacking.

Attacker

Heroes that gain large benefits from color stacking - Rogue Guardian Jackal, Barbarian Gormek, Sorcerer Sabina, Wizard Kiril, Paladin Sonya, Druid Gobbler, Sorcerer Skittleskull, Ranger Chao, etc. - benefit more from an attack stat emphasis in class nodes and attack stat 3*/ 4* troops since colored attacks do get the non linear attack bonus from color stacking.


Druid Emblems: Gadeirus's Talent Grid question
#36

I’ve been chewing over this 4* vs 5* issue a lot. I agree with @Pois1 that those of us who have lots of maxed 5* are not going to use emblems on 4* — with some possible exceptions for 4* with extraordinary specials (e.g. maybe Wu Kong makes the cut, if you don’t have Tarlak or Santa).

For mid-tier players, though, the math is pretty straightforward: use ~1500 emblems to create three 4+19 or one 5+19. (Step 20 is stupid expensive and for most classes should be skipped.) A 4+19 is pretty close to a cuurent maxed 5*, which is to say really good. Adding three “quasi-5*” to your roster probably does more than adding one quasi-6*.


Wonderland Heroes - Will they make your main team? What do you think of Cheshire Cat, Alice, Queen of Hearts QoH, The Hatter, Captain of Diamonds? How do they work? [MASTER]
#37

I disagree Doc. If I manage to pull Frida, she/He’ll be my 30th maxed 5* and I fully intend on using emblems on at least one Rigard, one Hansel and at least one Guardian Jackal.


#38

Emblems spent should be on versatility not just for the maxed 5* that you have. I’ve spent some on Boldtusk, Wu Kong, and Rigard for how useful they are and for their specials.


#39

Same thoughts here. Though I’m using emblems on Hansel for the time being. I don’t have a 5* cleric fully leveled yet, and he’s great to play. Once Mother North finishes, he may be waiting around for a while, but the boost he has with some extra levels on the talent tree are worth it to me and how I use him.


#40

On my alt I opted for Rigard instead of Hansel. Either seems really sound.