Dear SG, this is the game you created

And the rest of you don’t give me this “it was her choice” bull crap. SG has made a game perfectly fine-tuned to toy with people’s addictions and it’s sad to see it play out. Many people don’t have the self-control others have, so they’re just sitting ducks. It’s an irresponsible and quite frankly disgusting way to design a game.

Here’s one way to fix it: Have an algorithm that increases your chance to get a 5-star by 1% each time you pull and don’t get one. It can reset once you get a 5-star hero. That at least guarantees a 5-star after enough pulls.

And so what if that means there will be more 5-stars out there? It still takes months to collect mats to level them, that doesn’t have to change. Having more 5-star heroes gets players to the end-game faster and that’s where the fun is. Why punish your players in order to get there?

If SG has a conscience they would take this more seriously and do the right thing.


In all reality, spenders do know the odds if they can read

Bad streaks happen

Never have good pull expectations. They are rare.

Dont spend more than You’re willing to lose like your friend did

It sucks but is what it is

It’s been the SG business model and key part of the game since day 1

People accept that from jump street and choose how to handle it: f2p, c2p, p2p, p2w or they quit


I’m sorry to hear of the experience of your alliance mate and sympathize as when I was running an alliance similar experiences for my co-leaders of the time led them to quit also that led to the alliance eventually needing to be wrapped up.

Unfortunately this sort of thing is a direct product of the pervasive micro-transaction model found throughout the mobile gaming industry which in itself is quite unpopular amongst gamers.

There is however a silver lining emerging, in a sense with mobile gaming in a sort of infancy this micro-transaction model has a lot in common with the yellow-journalism period of the early newspaper industry (to be fair you could argue it might even be re-emerging). What changed much of that was the emergence of a subscription model that allowed newspapers to have a more reliable revenue stream to move away from bad practices. With many regulators worldwide putting pressure on the micro-transaction model and both Apple and Google looking to launch subscription services that grant you access to many games in a sort of Netflix for mobile games there is a good chance of a similar revolution. It just needs more gamers to accept that developers need revenue to continue making games (unfortunately SGG spends more money on advertising to replace players that leave than it does on development and player retention) and that a small amount for a subscription to many games as you would for pretty much any other leisure activity is a fair price for it. Granted Empires and Puzzles is now too well established to adapt it towards those services but it would not be difficult for newer games designed for those services to seek a market their (perhaps SGG will even do so with another game in the future).

I do however think there is merit in discussing the merits of what SGG CEO has admitted to on the analytical tools they have custom built to assess and profile gamers to maximize how to best capitalise on each type of player especially with deals and which in-game ads/promos (not Mystic Vision) it pops in your face regularly would naturally mean for players who may have mental health issues that could impact on their impulse control. And it is not an trivial consideration as I have chatted with many players with mental health issues and the appeal of retreating into mobile games when life is feeling bad is quite high. For those sorts of people continually waving pop ups and deploying profit maximising algorithms on them presents a very real chance of ruining some people’s lives (I genuinely hope doesn’t SGG intend to do that and is more an unintended consequence arising from perhaps not considering them fully). And when you consider how people can struggle to understand how probabilities work (I mean we get many posts arguing boards aren’t random for example) it can be argued that stating the odds may not be enough, an option to disable the pop up ads that introduce temptation might be something for consideration for vulnerable groups.

Though such a discussion may better be served in another thread.


This right here.:point_up:t3: I’m a not data scientist but it seems very logical to me that focusing more on players’ quality of life will warrant less spending on marketing/ads. And the fortunate side-effect of that is your players will enjoy the game more. Seems like common freakin sense to me.



But then again, are they really losing money?

I mean i know people that drop 300 to 500 per new hero

Your friend dropped 500 once that we know of

So with that being said, financially is their focus where it truly should be for biggest financial gains?

I don’t know SG finances or anything of the sort. But i would say that each new player joining has potential to bring in 10x the revenue SG wont get from a player that just quit

Not sayin i like it. Just simply a discussion of both sides of the coin. We see the player/consumer side where it’s like “this sucks and they have to be losing a ton of money from people quitting etc” but on the other side of that coin are the figures of new player spending potential vs old player cease of spending

Especially considering players typically spend less and less as time goes on due to needing less heroes, less troops, etc

Basically they’re playing the same numbers game of most online services

10x new customers per 1x ex customer = big profits

If SG can attract 10 potential whales for every 1 ex spender, the numbers will/have speak for themselves


The point I was making wasn’t whether SG is maximizing their profits, but the fact that they’ve created a game that brings out the worst in people. It is quite blatant. It simply shouldn’t be possible for someone to pay $500 to get absolutely nothing.

My son just paid $99 for the Borderlands 3 deluxe collector edition and is getting a ton of enjoyment out of it. But $500 on this game and it’s POSSIBLE to get nothing? F**king ridiculous. It doesn’t have to be this way. SG has the power to fix that.


Everything you’re saying are all slogans and we’ve heard them before. The point is, if SG cared about their players’ quality of life then we wouldn’t be having this discussion, and droves of people wouldn’t be rage quitting. But they designed this game to allow this sort of thing to happen. Period.


Imo this game is like a casino. The house always win


Lol i just don’t see the point you’re trying to make

You like the game or you don’t

It’s not SG’s responsibility to manage your money

They’ve posted the odds which bluntly tell you “you’re going to get shafted in summons 99% of the time”

Not their job to teach people to read or teach people financial responsibility. Players are adults as far as i know.

And no player gets nothing, every penny spent comes with something. Just because it’s not the results you want, doesn’t mean it’s nothing.

People blame everyone else for their mistakes.

Simple simple simple concept of this game really. If you can throw money away with extremely high chance of unfavorable results, then do so and have fun with it. If you can’t, then dont.

All heroes return, there is no reason to go over budget on any hero.

Have i done it? Yup but i didnt hit the forum ranting and raving or making YouTube vids to eat my heroes or flake on my teammates. I owned my mistakes as my own choices, made a laugh out of it and moved on.

This game is entertainment, you have nothing to gain by going overboard on the gamble. There is no $ spent on this game that isn’t just thrown away if you’re not having fun with it.

If you want the plain n simple version of what you’re friend said, I’ll summarize:

“I didnt get my way! I quit!”

Basically like throwin her cereal bowl when her parents gave her frosted flakes instead of fruity pebbles

You say players don’t get what they pay for. Players pay for a chance, they get that chance, along with the rush of being satisfied or disappointed

If “droves” of players were quitting every day, i think we’d probably hear about more than 1 or 2 and we wouldn’t see so many 1 yr, 2 yr+ players still playing the game

Even a few of the well known whales who quit have come back and even 1 guy that made a 2 hr long " i don’t get paid to play, f this I’m out" vid came back.

So whether you like it or not, hard to say what SG has designed isn’t working for both player retention and new player interest.

I’ve yet to see any sudden decline in current players and familiar faces or a sudden drop in new players joining. You can go to the in game chats and see floods of new players coming in every day. You can scroll through this forum or Line and see plenty of long timers still playing.

Should mention that if the # of players that continue to play greatly outnumbers the # of players who quit, then why should SG change their ways?

If McDonald’s did a survey and 10 out of every thousand people said they didn’t like the fries, would that mean McDonald’s should change their recipe for those 10 out of 1000 people?

Anyways, if you want to argue your personal opinion vs reality that’s a pointless convo. If you want to argue facts, i feel there’s nothing more i can/need to add.
So basically…

Nuff said


I can’t help but wonder why is it you think SGG should care about players quality of life… SGG is a profit oriented company worth half a billion $. You don’t make that kind of money by caring about people, you make it by taking advantage of their weakenes. They are operating within legal limits with the purpose of getting as much money as possible by selling you their product. It is entirely up to you if you buy or you don’t. Anyway, you can always play the game without spending one dime, trust me, I’ve been doing this for 15 month. It’s a ■■■■ video game, you don’t need to pump hundreds of dollars in it. The choice is yours to make.


I don’t agree that “endgame” is where the fun is. I’ve seen loads of posts from people who have maxed all buildings, have multiple 5* teams, park themselves in top 100, ace all challenges, and are now just twiddling their thumbs hoping Season 3 brings something new enough to keep their interest. Many have said that it’s only the friends they’ve made through this game that keep them playing it. That’s not because they didn’t get what they were after, but because they did. Personally I’d rather work towards something than splurge a load of cash, get it and then go “what now?” (Although, to be fair, sometimes I do splurge a bit, and that’s fun too. But $500 in one sitting? She did well to quit if that’s an example of her impulse control.)

Oh, and btw, there’s a lot more to this game than 5*. Beating challenges with unemblemed 4*, that’s quite a trick, but it can be done, even by players like me who are quite poor on seeing patterns etc. It’s getting easier now I have more decent heroes, but at one time it was ticklish. But, oh, the joy when you actually succeed! So much more satisfying than just pulling a lever and seeing what falls out, don’t you think?

ps I didn’t get Grazul and I’m out of gems. This game sucks.


Yes, Empires and Puzzle is a tool made to make profit. Nothing more nothing less.

But have you take a look on other mobile games? Many of them have exactly the same policy, if not even worse.

So, if you want to point a finger, direct it to the system that don’t punish this kind of conduct.

They are not doing anything the system not allow them to do.

Put you in their shoes. Pretend for a moment you are one of them.
Would you give up on some easy profit to make what people ask you to do? (and no guarantee people still complaint and ask for more?)

I’m not so sure i would be any different in their shoes.


There are entire industries and empires based on this concept.

We’re not a great race, unfortunately


Oh, I wish I could have read this proper explanation of rubbish scheme 1 year earlier.

1 Like

This is a micro-transaction game, built on the foundation of identical principles to every single other micro-transaction game out there. There is no mystery to why these principles are replicated. They work. They include the following:

  • employ a club/clan/alliance structure. The human bonds teammates make, keep them playing the game longer, and spending more, even when they start to think they don’t like the game itself
  • offer items for discount, time-limited purchase, so you think you have to buy to stock up on a “deal”
  • require grinding or daily play to maintain/advance progress
  • employ Gatcha purchases for premium items. Players keep gambling to chase difficult to obtain items.
  • don’t publish the game manual or much about the rules or mechanics. Let die-hard community addicts have fun trying to figure out how stuff works and post youtube videos and forum threads where they can boast about their superior game knowledge and strategies/skills.

And so on and so on.

Don’t think SG is any more or less evil or immoral than any other micro-transaction game. There are well established business models and they all follow them. The underlying game is of secondary importance, to be honest. It’s merely a vehicle for prompting the micro-transaction spending. It can be pretty mediocre, as long as they’ve nailed all the other elements, they laugh all the way to the bank.


SG have created a game which Is totally free if you wish. 5 star heros and LVL 4 ascention mats, all for nothing, if you have the patience to wait.

Alternatively you can attack to pull for better 5 star heros and the odds are clearly posted. It’s a choice of the individual if they want to try for something with a very low probability of success.


It is also the foundation of advertising and the entire capitalist system. The game is life in a teapot.


@Navar, that’s been discussed before, some kind of “bad luck protection” that some other games have adopted. The problem with “bad luck protection” is the whales spend less because they get things easier. Then the money that SG lost on summons needs to be made up elsewhere. This is a big business, increased quarterly profits keep the investors happy, decreasing these profits put people out of work. As much as I’d love to know I’d pull Guinevere eventually, that’s not going to improve the bottom line.

Your friend should have kept in mind that there is no “winning” this game. Sure being #1 worldwide would be great, however fleeting, but as for “winning” there is no winning.
It’s a GAME to occupy people while they aren’t out being responsible and working for a living. 500$ is an awful lot to drop on a mobile game when your daughter needs her wisdom teeth removed and insurance leaves you paying 425$. Sure some people have less responsibility and more money which gives them an edge to get the best heroes, but not a guarantee.


If I walk into someones shop & ask for a cup of coffee & the owner says that if I pay, I can have a 1% chance to get a coffee. How many seconds will it take before I’ve yelled every profanity in the book, in multiple languages & not just slammed the door on the way out, but smashed it.

This is what is happening in this game.
Because you can spend $500 & get nothing but a slap in the face.