Damage Calculation

The number of tiles has nothing to do with the number of Heroes. Match-3, get three tiles.

So using same colour hero is so much better for attack, I did not know that at all.
I thought if I match 3 tile and have 3 hero same colour all get one tile and there is no difference when I use one
:frowning:

For being sure, match 3 tile means get 3 tile for each hero of that colour right?
Sorry for repeat the question

There is no “for each”. Match three shields get three tiles, no matter how many Heroes you have.

When you attack with tiles, each tile will do damage according to the total ATT of all Heroes of that Element, however many Heroes there are.

Thanks for answer dear LordDust
You solve one of my problems :heart:

just to help reinforce @LordDust:

Here is all the same unleveled hero

Blue vs Green:
image

Green vs Green:
image

Red vs Green:
image

2 Red:
image

5 Red:
image

And a good read for you:
[What Is Elemental Damage? - A Guide to Elements]

You should know the more color you stack, the more risk you have for receiving the infamous bad board!
Yes you can do more damage. But only if you get the tiles!

I recommend it, when you don’t have strong heroes!
And some recommend it always :wink:
Good luck!

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As far as we know, Ranvir/ Tarlak/ Miki work as follows:

Your research is brilliant!
But I haven’t gotten it yet.

My raid team is on pic1.png
Yellow heros are Joon, Wu Kong and Vivica.

Yellow panel’s Att Calculation is bellow.
Joon: Att=621(pic2), troops=+12%(pic5) ->695.52
Wu Kong: Att=587(pic3), troops=+14% ->669.18
Vivica: Att=601(pic4), troops=+9% ->655.09
Total:2019.79

The target is Seshat.(pic6)
Her Def Calculation is bellow.
Seshat: Def=575, troops:+15%(pic7) ->661.25

ADR:2019.79/661.25 = 3.0545

‘formula_to_be_found’ Calculation is bellow
350 x exp( -9 x exp( -0.9 x ADR)) + 80 x ADR
=441

‘damage_modifier’ is 2 by strong color effect.

At last the damage is 882.

The pic9 is opening of the battle.
3 Yellow panels hit Seshat.
Real damages are 269, 273 and 271.

Shoud I divide damage calculation result?
882 / 3 = 294

Is this procedure what you intended?

Oh! I can’t upload multi picture file because I’m new member.
I merged my files, pic1.png -> top-left pic2->top-middle

Thank you very much for the kind words, and the independent testing.

That is exactly how the formula is supposed work and you are right: the calculated damage has to be divided by 3 to get the damage for each tile.

With the attack/defense ratio of 3.0545 you are in a range where the damage is already varying a lot.
The lower boundary for this formula gives 241 damage per tile.
The normal formula gives 294 damage per tile.
The upper boundary for this formula gives 346 damage per tile.

The 269, 273 and 271 tile damage are a little bit on the lower side, but still well within this (quite large) range :smiley:

Thank you for your check on my procedure.
Now I understand how to use your formula.
I will test some more case and report to you!

Not when you use this formula. The formula fits only with the tile damage and doesn’t apply any bonuses. This would be different, if the formulas design would also incorporate the defender’s slash damage.

The distant target is, of course, to get a formula that works for tile damage, slash damage and specials damage. My preliminary data shows that the curves are similar, but different. I haven’t found a simple relation yet. There seems to be something else than just a 20% boost for attack and defense of the defender.

That would be great. I’m curious, if this this formula will indeed hold up to expectations

That is right. Nevertheless, these are only 3 data points.
The min and max I suggest for that situation (ADR = 3,05) indicate a large range from approx 241-346.

When I compare these data points with my own tile damage date it fits quite well:
grafik
(fumitomo’s tile damage is multiplied by 3/2 to adjust for tiles and strong colour)

So more testing is very welcome :slight_smile:

Can you link the post where the 20% defense bonus for the defender is confirmed? I only remember that other players assumed such a bonus and others went along with it.

If you only look at the damage in one situation (tile damage) then it doesn‘t matter if there are any extra bonuses or not, because the fomula you get already includes all of them.

When you extend the situation and include the defender‘s slash attacks into your formula, then you have to take into account all of the bonuses that apply to the defender to be able to align their damage output to the attacker‘s damage.

I already did some checking in this regard for my data, but I wasn‘t able to align the tile and slash damage curves with only +20% attack and +20% defense for the defender. My best manual fit so far was with something like

  • +30% attack boost for the defender
  • +30% defense boost for the defender
  • -45% damage reduction for the defender

Of course, this is far from a nice and simple relation, so it‘s probably wrong.

I am so sorry to have cluttered up the discussion with such nonsense. I did not examine your formula closely. I see what you mean now.

The way I recall it, the confirmation was one of those damndably brief drive-by comments in the wake of the discovery of the 20% increase to DoT on defence. The amount was not confirmed, just something like “Yes, this is real”. I wish I had bookmarked it, but I wasn’t even a Forum member at the time. I remember being excited, like the stats crew had caught the staff out on some kind of big secret! Now I understand that SGG is just bizarrely secretive about trivial things.

Does it count when Staff says “good conribution”? :rofl:

No problem at all, the damage calculation still needs discussion and analysis for better understanding, and you reminded me that I wanted to investigate this further. (too much life happened in the meantime…)

The 20% increase in DoT damage for the defender is proven, yes.

My recent investigation into this found that the DoT formula is rather simple:
DoT/turn = hero‘s DoT factor x hero‘s attack value x (1 + troop attack bonus) / DoT turns x defense team bonus
=> you can use the +20% for the damage or for the defender’s attack, both give the same result

I got burned when I initially investigated raid damage and treated tile damage, slash damage and specials damage equally. The resulting damage curve wasn’t really that useful (see my earlier posts in this thread).
So I then decided to separate them and check each on their own, which gave much better results, especially after finding the formula for the Gompertz curve to describe the “S” shaped curve…

When I look at the minion damage they also seem to have a rather straight and simple damage formula. Defender gets a damage or attack boost there as well, their factor is approx 90 compared to 68 for the attacker:

Minion damage = 68 x caster‘ attack power x caster‘s troop bonus x caster‘s minion attack % x (1 + minion attack buff) / (target‘s defense x target‘s troop defense bonus x (1+defense buff/debuff x 4/5) x (1+elemental defense buff/debuff x 4/5) x damage_modifier

90/68 = 1,32
So there seems to be an attack or damage boost in the range of 30-35% for the defender. Is the defender’s bonus different for every formula? Or do 20% attack boost always apply for the defender and there are additional modifiers?

You could apply 20% attack bonus and then add another +50% bonus for minion damage to get the 30% damage increase for the defender (1,2 x 1,5 = 1,3)

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Great thread and big thanks to the author!

Surely this has been discussed somewhere before, but I couldnt find it… My question is about color stacking and damage.

As (n * x)^1.35 = n^1.35 * x^1.35 , can this be directly applied to color stacking and tile damage?

So 2 same color same strength heroes is not 2x damage, it’s 2^1.35=2.55 times the damage, 3 heroes is 3^1.35=4.4 times, 4 heroes is 6.4 times and 5 heroes is 8.8 times the tile damage. So for mono, you get 8.8 for the price of 5 :slight_smile:

Is this correct? Thanks!

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This is all excellent! Thanks for your effort @Zack

All minions give a percentage
of HP and Attack, from the caster

Replicator: 18% HP, 15% ATK
Forest Familiar: 9% HP, 13% ATK
Sparrow: 25% HP, 25% ATK
Raven: 20% HP, 20% ATK

And you discovered defense comes from owner, awesome!
But is it 100%?

Thank you @Pompitous!

That is a very good question!
So I now checked a dozen of my raid videos on minion damage and looked for a damage comparison for the same situation with and without minions:

Enemy Hu Tao hits my Caedmon (no minion) for 91 damage.
Enemy Hu Tao hits my Caedmon (minion) for 94 damage.
Enemy Hu Tao hits my Caedmon (no minion) for 95 damage.

Enemy Vivica hits my Caedmon (no minion) for 114 damage.
Enemy Vivica hits my Caedmon (minion) for 121 damage.
Enemy Vivica hits my Caedmon (no minion) for 118 damage.

My blue stack hits Delilah (no minion) for 167 damage at a 1.2 combo multiplier, so it would normally be 139 damage (=167 / 1.2)
My blue stack hits Delilah (minion) for 154 damage at a 1.1 combo multiplier, so it would normally be 140 damage (=154 / 1.1)

My blue stack hits Lady of the Lake (no minion) for 73, 74 and 70 damage (1.1 combo is shown for the next set of tiles in the cascade)
My blue stack hits Lady of the Lake (minion) for 69 damage.

I’ll check some more videos tomorrow, but imho this already points in the direction of the minions getting 100% defense from their owners.

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Damage isn’t calculated against the minion but is calculated against the hero they are attached to.

The minion just intercepts the damage (up to their current HP).

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:white_check_mark: thanks :pray:

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