Damage calculation of Cobalt 3x Mana - SG, really?!

It is not pure damage. Pure damage is like Sartana Costume, Lianna, or Thorne.

Cobalt in 2nd charge have very high bypass chance as additional. Ranger talent is a joke compared to Cobalt’s bypass due to the low odds. Correct me if I’m wrong, isn’t Cobalt bypass at 2nd charge become perfect with max Ninja Troop?

Remove that part and Cobalt will commit seppuku in front of Mitsuko and will be a clown in front of defense buff.

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Yes, cobalt bypasses 100% at charge 2 with maxed ninja troops.

While I like the ninjas in general, I think they change too much in terms of game mechanics: reflect / dodge without special skills, charge mechanism makes mana cutters much less effective (eg special usually still there after Freya dies), very high stats, very good specials. They play as if they are from a different game. Compare this with the slow and deliberate introduction of emblems, minions, stacks etc.

As a result, very few existing specials are good to decent counters (for me, mostly taunt and over-healers).

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Trivia: family bonus, innate resistance, innate ability, and mana regen bonus from costume are not counted in the power displayed at hero card. (Attack, defense, and HP bonus from costume are counted)

Ninjas are a bit OP, but i don’t mind. Problem is their rarity - normal players will never get them (or they have to be really lucky) but whales will have them all. And the gap widens…

:woman_shrugging:t2:

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I am sorry but he does any attack up boost special dmg, it is the same like attack down from vela make it weaker.

I’m sorry but no… Miki is only attack boost tile, not boost special who do direct-damage.
Miki is like Tarlak.
Not like Wu Kong or Ranvir.

And Vela is like Scarlett, Kiril.C, Skittleskull, Horghall, flipped with BT, Kiril, BK, Heimdall, Rigard.C.
Here is reference:
:bookmark_tabs: Status Effects (Buffs and Ailments) and Stacks

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What do you mean OP heroes are okay if they’re “rare”?? If you support that statement, you are the whole reason why this game keeps having ridiculous power jump that will eventually kill the game!

Don’t you realize that the game has gotten horribly P2W FOCUS now?? Look at the previous HotM for the past 2years++ where you get GM, Hel, Kunchen, Frida, Athena, Evelyn, Kingston and all of them was super strong for the time and guess what? The game was more balance in term of f2p and c2p getting decent heroes to compete because they are more likely to get HoTM and it’s better for larger pool of players. However look at where we’re going now?! Ninjas are OP and 100% P2W only, bunch of heroes on s3 are OP and again, definitely favour P2W. Above all, when you think it all ends, SG just need to release even more OP heroes on S4 or new events for again P2W (which increased the gap for F2P/C2P players even more to be an "underdog"and probably the end to those players once they can’t do much anymore).

However in the end, even P2W will never win because SG can keep releasing even more OP heroes than what they currently have. You’ll have to spend so much money to keep up with the trend of SG which basically just code the new special of heroes which is not very hard at all.

This is why, there shouldn’t be any heroes that’s beyond super strong and can’t be countered, otherwise this “rarity” soon will never be rare anymore by the pace of SG releasing OP heroes one after another.

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Well said Renren, very well said.

Just give enough money SGG and any “rare” hero will be yours :slight_smile:

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All of you guys that complain how OP Vela was. Now have to deal whit Ninjas + Odin and Frigg.

Good luck whit this new balance.

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I see a lot of people just posting “Ninjas are OP”, but don’t see a lot making the argument as to why, or in what scenario. I want to emphasize that repetition of a claim, even by multiple sources, does not constitute a cogent argument supporting the case. Blue ninja is probably the best ninja (though I’d argue red ninja is probably the best for my style on offense). He’s a strong defender (second best behind Finley), and above average attacker. Being second best to Finley is certainly no mark of shame, as Finley is incredibly strong, but certainly doesn’t constitute a jump in power level from previous generations of heroes. Their family bonus is strong but inconsistent (the randomness can be frustrating to attackers, particularly if they’ve happened get burned by RNG a few times), and necessitates that multiple ninjas (the rest of whom are not second best in their color) be used.

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Finley has several good counters.
Mitsuko, Riposte, Dodge, Taunt

If a hero has no counters…
Can we lend any credence
to OP conversations?

It seems like Ninjas were designed with some kinda of built-in counter. By having the potential to be slower than very slow.
If I were you guys…
I’d start cataloguing the AI for these ninjas! I just had one sit at level 2. Got close to level 3. I hit it with Magni and almost killed it.
I laughed when it fired on me… it tried to save for level 3. And as soon as death become imminent, she fires.
Very Solid AI for these ninjas!

Add an inheritance for dodging tiles!
Skills is one thing, but dodging tiles right out of the gate?!
And By-passing defenses…

I think it’s a bit much.
I don’t know if it’s OP…
I win some. I lose some.
They are starting to saturate.
It maybe another experiment searching for the next meta. But…
What’s the counter…I wonder…

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The counter is apparently taunt and dodge…(?) but when you’re like me and don’t have taunt and dodge you cannot do anything to soften Cobalts blow. You just have to try to kill him before he fires. That usually means letting some other hero unleash on me. He can dodge, he can riposte, he can bypass almost everything (including my Finley killing Mitsuko), and he’s massively powerful in attack power. He’ll always charge up towards a 3x charge, but change his mind and fire immediately if he is damaged. It is a little much.

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Yeah. Ninjas have a lot going for them.
I bet you dollars to doughnuts that anyone who argues that point. Is also using them!

What sort of contradiction would that be? A dishonest one?

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Decent counters include blind, dodge, attack down, taunt and mana manipulators (as you can make ninjas do some odd firings if you take mana from them). Best of luck in your battles.

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Thanks. I’ve actually tried those. I have LOTL and Mits. Due to the overlapping mana bars. I’ve not felt mana drain to be a terrific counter.

What bothers me about your counters. Is how dodged tiles don’t go through the enemy and give my taunter mana.
Not only can ninjas dodge tiles, they basically delete them.
And it’s inherent.

I’m not on the OP train, yet
But… the ninja AI… doesn’t need such a powerful skill to help it along. That AI could use a little dumbing down from what I’ve seen.

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Mana drain needs to be timed vs them for sure and can get a bit odd depending on their charge but also can be incredibly useful… heroes such as onatel and hel also very good. Having battled plenty of ninja teams myself, I wouldn’t consider them the strongest build currently, so it would be hard for me to suggest op even if they can be very frustrating at times.

I like the very first HotM, and will give agree there. Which also makes Hel rare. And well…
what doesn’t Hel counter :joy:

So far, my Onatel just encourages them to fire… but I’ve only put her in a couple times.

So… the counters for ninjas. Are the same skills for any other hero. But defenses get bypassed. And skills are more difficult to charge up since you have tiles get deleted.

Hmmm, After joining this conversation. I’m leaning towards the OP

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To be fair, only cobalt is bypassing defenses regularly… Onyx only does with ranger talent… I think it’s fair to have a hero out there that can bypass defense buffs. Garnet is a solid tank but In my opinion not the best red… mica and jade are both meh defenders from what I’ve seen… so are we talking about ninjas or just cobalt here? Cobalt has low defense and is pretty easy to kill off… of course, unless he dodges, which like I mentioned, can be frustrating but to me… is what makes ninjas… ninjas.

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Dodging skills is extraordinary.
Dodging tiles tho…? If the attacker got extra mana for the ghosted tile that did no damage, I’d call that balance.
Instead…
it’s a double whammy against the attacker and a very powerful inherent skill for defending ninjas. It doesn’t seem especially balanced to me.

But they can potentially be the slowest.
But… lol…
they don’t behave stupid often!

It’s a mixed bag.
They’re starting to pile up! The reasons for why are difficult to dispute.

Let’s kick back and see what the landscape looks like
in another month or so.

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