I think the fact that to many games allow credit card warriors to have say so versus actual skilled play is the bigger issue. When the first MMOs came out, you had to put in months of hard work per character, and then be good enough to work with a group of people to get said gear. How we went from that system to the current one just makes no sense at all. The fact that we can’t really do anything CoOp 4 years after doesnt make any sense either. Some actual team events that people could work with their alliance mates to accomplish would take so much negativity away from the game as you could actually help one another get the necessary items to work in your heroes. This buy it or pray system just seriously wtf? If anyone can explain to me why the whole playerbase hasn’t asked for dungeons and raids type events that they could fo with their mates to FARM ascension items, gems, fun Things to do with 2 and 3 man teams. There is just absolutely no reason that they haven’t added 2×2 and 4×4 type quests where people can really let there rosters and mind shine. Other than videos no one has any real idea of their mates skill or decision making during tough boards
Currently close to two years of not spending (haven’t spent since the very beginning).
It has no relation to nerfs (which are vital for the game as much as buffs, post-release balancing is essential to preserve the general playerbase).
It has no relation to any “summoning methods”, which are a placebo in my opinion (not to mention they encourage you to actually spend on 10-pulls, each of which is like half the price of a whole AAA studio PC game).
It’s just that the business model of current age mobile gaming exists based on promotion of further spending, and that is done by implementing a perpetual arms race - there’s no way around it, new heroes will get stronger, and older heroes will become obsolete.
The odds of pulling shiny event heroes are miniscule even with moderate spending, so all you can do without hard whaling is just build up a solid base of TC20 heroes with the occasional gift from above sprinkled in - and you don’t have to spend at all for that.
I’ll take what I can get and work with what I got - there’s fun to be had in that too.
But is it though. Is it really fun constantly seeing heroes that you know no matter how much work you put into a game, how much you help your friends, if you refuse to pay you almost will never get these heroes. The fact there is 4 years in and no way to even farm a 5 star tokem, coin, quest is simply insane. We are going on our 4th season of heroes and there isn’t a way to win a coin for even a season one garuntee.
You have to go into a gacha game with the mentality that you will never ever get any given specific hero.
And you don’t really need them to complete the vast majority of content (I’ve completed ninja tower last time, which is probably the hardest piece of content the game has to offer), unless you want to get into the top50 alliances and duke it out against full 4750+ meta setups in wars.
No one goes into any game thinking there is no way to get a hero. Thats like saying go to the casino thinking you are never gonna hit a jackpot. Completely counter productive. 90% of their income is on people hoping they get said heroes/ jackpot so i dont really understand this sentiment?
Nice 9 months Happy new year btw
3 years veteran I salute you and bow in front of you. I am a veteran for myself, been one of the players from the very beginning. Not from the first day, but Alberich was hero of the month when I started playing. Dude, whe both miss this old glory days! 
. All the fun we had! And now? The game is more and more stressfull. I congratulate you on your 9 months NoSpend, I didn’t quite make it, I do small transactions from time to time, like Path of Valor or VIP.
But now I’m also looking for another game that is more fun than this one. Of course, I would stay loyal to the game for my friends and the alliance’s sake. Until the game just going to die.
When Zynga realize, theres no more income, they going to pull the trigger.
Thank you very much and you are correct. I just dont even know really where to begin at the respect I have for the new games model. Here is an example that anyone in this game can fully get behind. First off during events, ONLY a certain pool of 5 stars are available not every single vanilla one.
They hosted a vote for a week on what heroes players would like to see back in a banner. After a week of voting they created a banner with only the top qq most wanted 5 stars available, now u could still pull 4 and 3 star heroes, but if you got a 5 you knew it would be one of the ones you wanted not a vanilla hero. On top of that for new years, the special deal is 7 5 star event heroes tickets for $26 dollars. You are garunteed 7 event 5 stars,no vanilla at all, for $26. Find me one player in this game that can show me one deal in 4 years that can top that?? New game won’t be at one year till March but that is how you show player appreciation. If you give people heroes they will play its just that simple. When people feel appreciated they are more likely to spend even if its small.
If the income dries, the game will die. I too am very curious about the landscape of the game especially at the top with the amount of powercreep going into the season 4 heroes. I don’t think we will see a situation where nobody spends. But if revenue shrinks as a result of enough players getting discouraged, I’m sure they will notice.
There is danger in this too. Free to play players get completely left behind. If they were to offer that deal in EnP, I’m sure it would be the most purchased deal ever. I would buy it. As many as they have. I have spent, I have pulled. I have a grand total of 4 event 5 star heroes and 1 seasonal 5. With a moderate amount of spending across almost 2.5 years.
I also hold my own in war in a top 10 alliance. But to have a chance to get a bunch of shinies I don’t have I’d jump all over it. I’d pay 26 for 2 guaranteed event 5’s, let alone 7.
See the danger in shinies is when shinies are hard to get. This game makes shinies easy to get but allows for multiple ways to upgrade your shinies. Actual gear, that has stats, clothing that can be purchased with in game currency and upgraded, and the ability to specifically make your own builds means there are just hundreds of ways to make sure my shiny and your shiny are just not the same. In the 9 months since I went no spend I habe never had a single rage post because at the end of the day, they make multiple ways for you to acquire heroes and they also put heroes into the regular pool a few weeks after their banner closes. Most gacha games these days have mechanic for acquiring five stars other than just summoning and that is where empires has simply dropped the ball.
You cant make everything in the game RNG including leveling heroes, and the ability to get the items to level them. There must be a way for players to know they are making actual progress and some form of control of your roster. Empires is the only game I have ever played where my whole roster,even after I pull a hero, is based on what drops 4 star mats, and when without spending. The fact that they started nerfing heroes after people spent tons, Simply the ultimate disrespect.
In the game I am currently playing, I get (for free):
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3,700 gems every 28 days for pure attendance - just login once a day and collect (E&P: zero)
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2,300-2,400 gems every 7 days, based on raid performance (E&P: zero)
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About 1,800 gems every 7 days for Arena performance (essentially a live battle) (No equivalent comparison to E&P here so won’t make the comparison)
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About 2,600-2,800 gems every 11 days or so for Titan performance (E&P: probably ~50 gems?)
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Free 100 WE and 100 gems per day
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Random 600-1000+ gems gifted during special events, or when content is updated. Content is updated every week and a half or so. 1 new hero comes out each week and a half. Older heroes are sometimes rotated on banner with the new hero.
Other gems of various amounts are given for first time quest completion.
This means I can afford to do about 3-4 x 10 pulls every week, for free. A 10 pull is 2,700 gems.
For every 300 pulls, I get a free hero of my choice as a mileage gift.
On some days, my 10-pull gets 2-3 legendaries. On some days, I get zilch. Now I kind of know how it feels like being a whale in Empires and Puzzles!!! It is quite exciting doing free 10 pulls actually even if you get nothing. @Rigs
As @DoctorStrange says though much of the time is spent on enhancing equipment and gear, but I don’t mind and it’s so much more satisfying being able to get the heroes you want.
The structure of pulls and the game is slightly different but it is close enough to the model of E & P for comparison purposes.
I also am at a sufficiently high player level to enable “sweeps” which is essentially the same as loot tickets. For free.
The amount of gems given is enough to make any FTP drool.
Wish I could tag the whole FTP rebellion.
I mean, I worked my butt off saving up for a 10 pull for MONTHS in E&P.
@Noble_Weasel @Shohoku79 @akionna @TGW @Muchacho @sleepyhead
all sounds good. what game? lol
Marble like heroes, just saying.
Someone who gets it.
10 spins on Empires is 2600-3000 gems
Current game 11 spin is 30
Empires- 4 levels of pvp brackets that give a loot chest
Current game- 5 levels per bracket and upon reaching higher bracket cannot deliver back to lower bracket and a gem amount is given each week for bracket placement, currently averaging two 10 spins just from placement.
Empires-every hero in the planet in every banner
Current- each banner has specific heroes and a shop that will later allow you to purchase missed heroes using in game currency
Global events that reward all players, actual co-op play with your mates to help one another get items for leveling.
Empires - hero tokens (cant be used on event spins) trainer hero tokens, and hard to farm coins for certain events.
Current game- multiple events where u can win tickets for a 10 times summon and 3 times in 8 months they have given 14 day log in free ten spin tickets just for playing.
When you get to a game where the developers actually care about players actually playing, you realize how much this one just doesn’t.
Great points
That sounds like a much better game for f2p players. That’s the thing with EnP. You can always just choose a different game. The grind may be much easier and more forgiving there. In EnP, it is not.
tsk! i am so tempted to jump over there 
thanks for the tag!
I also wouldn’t mind learning which game this is.
That’s ironically the healthy way of gambling.
What I’m saying is:
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If you’re F2P, you need to have according expectations: about 2-3 non-s1 five-star pulls per year, an s1 5* 1-2 times a month if you run several TC20, and no hopes of ever getting a high tier hero. F2P life is a life of adaptation rather than hoping to score big off luck alone.
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If you decide to spend, you can look at the $$$ numbers it takes to get a specific hero (90+% chance to get a specific event hero was triple or even quadruple digits if my memory serves me right). If you’re not going for that investment, you’ll have to come to terms that you probably aren’t going to get exactly what you want, but you might pick up something average to good on the way instead. If you’re going for the cheapest options (like VIP only), then it’s essentially same as F2P.
Just because someone is ftp they should not be excluded from having fun. That’s the issue with empires, nothing ever gets easier but back in the day, at least when u got something nice it was still fun. They have added all this new stuff and every single thing they add has a purchase system, new form of currency and some ladder that takes days to complete. On top of the days to complete you literally never have any control over your boards thus there is no way to speed things up other than playing a super low level with minimal loot. There should have been direct quests to farm items one may need. At least then you would know you gonna get what you trying for. This random drop on everytbing in the game is one of the most absurd practices I have ever seen and one of the reasons I feel like a tool for sticking around as long as I did. I now log in occasionally to say hello to some people who are still around but have absolutely no desire to try anything and my roster is pretty nice.