Cup dropping fix – restrict revenge team power relative to defense team power

I merged, but to an #ideas-feature-requests post that had a similar proposal instead, thanks! :heart_decoration:

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I don’t think the distinction is widely made, cup dropping can refer to any advantage gained in the raid system by fielding a weaker team.

Either way, I think your idea has some merit in that it would deter the practice.

I think the more significant argument is why does it need to be stopped as it helps people fill raid chests. I know you said that’s beside the point, but in order to actually get momentum behind a change in the system, that argument would have to be convincingly won.

Personally, I always use my best possible team for everything and always play to win, but cup dropping for easy revenges is still considered a pragmatic strategy.

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Fair enough that they’re not really that different and probably belong under the same umbrella. And while I certainly agree that running into those teams helps to complete the raid chests (presuming your trophy count isn’t the absolute highest priority), I started off by saying that such a discussion was beside the point, because that really isn’t relevant to the broader purpose of raids as a mode of competition. Raids are a simple PvP contest for rank (common to many games), one that was almost certainly imagined as users attacking, defending, and counterattacking with something resembling their best teams. Manipulating the ranking system by tanking one round to attempt to gain an illegitimate advantage in the next round is definitely not in keeping with a fair competition. I am perfectly fine with a fix making it at least marginally more difficult to earn raid chests, because I think that’s far less important than eliminating this particularly strategy that tries to game the system in some way.

Attack those pussies and have some malicious joy when they loose their revenge, too.

I always have to smile, when I meet 5 Aife or sth like that with 2000+ cups.

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And who determines this average lineup total and choice of heros in defense then…

So basically how each player chooses to earn or gain cups is not important as long as restrict how you choose to play the game.

That would bring devastating results as some heros are only or best used for defense and others for attacking.
Your saying you want the attacking team to become the defense team when revenging which would then disadvantage that opponents defense.

By saying " it’s not the point " your saying that players are to be stripped of making free playing strategic choices within the game.

Then many would really leave the game and quick tooo.

Try using raids more as a learning curve for team startagies and positioning against who ever you come across which will make you a better player and also better at wars which in turn will allow you to win more games which in turn will increase your cup amounts.

Cups mean nothing and have no value so why make them a priority in your game play. RELAX, ENJOY the game instead and learn from it, do as they do, etc.

Not sure what was unclear about my post, but whatever lineup you had in for defense is the one that would be locked in for your revenge attack. And as I said, if any heroes were no longer available, then the replacements couldn’t exceed the locked team power total when attacked the first time. I also made pretty clear that the strategic advantages and disadvantages were not relevant precisely because this type of gaming of the system is never intended in any game’s PvP mode. These strategies are always exploits that weren’t anticipated during design. Now, the fact that it is currently permitted does not make it cheating, as some have suggested. However, it is perfectly reasonable and appropriate to eliminate loopholes that were allowed to exist for some period of time. You also seem to miss the point that these changes require each user to still make “strategic choices” with their raid lineups, just different ones than having two distinct teams. The claim that the original defense team is significantly disadvantaged by this is not logical either. With both sides having locked lineups for attack and defense, neither side has an inherent advantage over the other across both matches, unlike the current situation where the initial defender gets BOTH the advantage of having a specific defense team in first and then substituting an attacking lineup for revenge, likely against a lineup that is not similarly set up to defend.

NO point missed here at all.
You want the attacking team to become the team the is locked upon revenge.

Understood you 100%

My comments above don’t change at all.

You want to remove players rights to play the games as they see fit. Plain and simple.

1 Like

I don’t mind cup droppers.
I love to catch them early when I can get 40+ cups from them.
So when they revenge most of the time get less cups from
me. If I am only getting 25 or less cups, most of the time I re-roll.
Unless I am about to finish off a chest.

I want both teams to be locked so that there is no question of fair match for both sides. And to be clear, no one has “a right to play the game as they see fit,” only the ability to play the game within the rules set forth by its developers, rules that are subject to change at any time, especially in order to eliminate exploits and loopholes.

Of cause there would be questions and big ones at that.
How many of us use the same defense team as we do attack team, I am sure every single top player who spends thousands a year to create top defense teams in the game will have something to say about it in a big way.

Your removing the right to defend yourself by making attackers become also then defenders.

Nothing fair about it no matter how you try to word it.

NEVER happen m8.

I am removing the ADVANTAGE that the team being attacked first has across both phases. The attacker has no ability to then insist that the revenge match is similarly formatted against his best D lineup, so that is an objectively unfair arrangement currently. That you think my system would be even less fair is quite laughable.

It’s good to see we can make each other laugh then. LMAO.

Enjoy

Defense team

The question is why do you do revenge raid ? ( see link below. )

Personally, I have not done revenges in 1.5 to 2 years. I have too much food, so rerolls help me use my food.

From a trophy point of view, revenge raids are not the best tactic or strategy ( see links ).

Teammates and chests

One reason my teammates trophy drop is to quickly fill their Wanted Hero Mission Chest. If they set a single 1* 1.1 hero on defense ( see World’s Deadliest Spelling Bee below ), their trophies will drop. Letting them attack weaker defense teams.

It works

Even if it works, your fix will simply have trophy dropper skip revenge raids. Trophy droppers will still set weak defense team, and manually drop trophies ( see notes ) to fill chests quicker.

The only thing it has fixed is trophy droppers and revenge raids, but many players do not even do revenge raids.

Defense heroes

Several defense heroes ( Kasshrek, Li Xiu, Gunnar, Carver ) are not very good attacking heroes.

While several attack heroes ( Brienne, Melia, Wu Kong, Boldtusk, Ranvir, Tarlak, etc. ) are much stronger than their hero power indicates.

It works

Even if it works, your fix will simply have trophy dropper skip revenge raids. Trophy droppers will still set weak defense team, and manually drop trophies ( see notes ) to fill chests quicker.

The only thing it has fixed is trophy droppers and revenge raids, but many players do not even do revenge raids.

Elo’s math

One solution is to a player’s trophies not matching the true rating of the player’s defense teams is to separate trophies into attack trophies and defense trophies.

Then defense trophies will automatically adjust due to Elo’s math. Removing a large portion of the bad matchmaking due to trophy dropping.

Example
If your defense team has a defense trophies rating of 1200, then only opponents with attack trophies of 900- 1500 can attack it.

Attackers can still manually attack trophy drop for easy Wanted Hero Mission Chest but that will always be the case.

Example
Player A with four rainbow 5*+15 teams sets a Elo rated defense of 600 defense trophies.

Opponents attacking his 600 defense trophy team will have an Elo rating of 300- 900 attack trophies.

Player A manually trophy drops to 0 attack trophies. Since this does not influence his defense trophies, his defense team stays at 600 defense trophies.

Player A uses 30 raid flasks to climb to 2400 attack trophies from 0 attack trophies. Since this does not influence his defense trophies, his defense team stays at 600 defense trophies.

Notes

Click for notes

Attack trophies and Defense trophies

How Attack trophies and defense trophies work

Links

( Why are you revenging (except for your ego)? )

( Raid revenge- Against a lower rated opponent (Make the System of Revenging Feel Fairer) )

( Revenge raids are rewarded for multiple attempts unfairly )

( [Trophy Tactics] "Waffle, "Drop", "Slow Climb" and "Hover" or tactics for deliberately changing trophies )

( [Trophy Strategies] Hold, Bait, 2nd, Crop, Max, & Bacon or strategies for attempting to influence your trophies )

FIN

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The other way round could be nice. Whenever you will be attacked, the attacking team will be locked for the revenge. That would reduce the use of mono and heavy stacking or at least put a little pressure to form an attacking team, that possibly will be able to stand the revenge, too.

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And that’s perfectly fine with me since my original post only took issue with folks who set a weak a defense team in order to bait others into attacking with the explicit goal of a revenge match with a much more powerful lineup. I honestly don’t care much about trophy dropping in general, only this semi-related strategy that some employ.

Sounds like you are simply moaning that someone you attacked hit you back with a much bigger team… boo hooo

My defence is set almost 500 below my main attack team… thus if you hit me my revenge would be stronger by almost 500 …precisely what you are crying about.

I get bored higher levels & often stack raid flasks as often I cant be bothered to raid unless a chest is light up, more so now the tourneys give raid awards…

Why do i drop trophies …
simple , when spare time I drop the trophies so I can easily use raid flasks at lower levels quickly by putting a defence of 5 x 1*

Its amazing how many look only at defence scores and ignore the Level of the player they are attacking.

TIP if you dont want to be revenged by a stronger player look at the level of the player you deem an easy target … they may be 5-20 levels above you with a potential 4000+ attack

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You did you go tell him that, now everyone will it, I was keeping that part a secret. lol

Spoil sport , lol

Although, I don’t really care about cup dropping or no cup dropping, I revenged any team and attack any team I choose, But by way of suggestion, a way to reduce this scheming style of play is to ensure distinctive comparative rewards from heroes chests I.e chests open in diamond are distinctly better rewarded than platinum, platinum better than gold et.c. ( Well my assertion is based on experience, I have been in Diamond arena for a long while and can not say the rewards from heroes chests are distinctively different)

And then with global condition that if raids are carried out more than say 25% in any raid arena, the reward would be based on that arena.

For instance if a player drops cups to platinum or gold , fill chests and eventually open in diamond, the reward would be based on platinum raids., or gold arena whichever is more.

I am sorry, but this makes no sense to me. I do not understand why this is an issue. Revenge teams are always more deadly than defense teams ( see below). Raids are designed that way.

Click for details

Link

( Raids are unfair, but not for the reasons you think )

Quote

Personally I think is is less of an issue than revenge being blocked by different versions and the different version issue is one without a practical business solution.

Team power

But lets examine the situation.

Color stacking only works on attack. So double strong/ neutral or triple strong/ neutral is and advantage.

Attackers can customize their attack team based on the defenders.

Attackers can skip a revenge that is too hard.

Defense team does not get color stacking. Defense team does not get combos. Defense teams do not get color damage. Defense teams get tinted damage. Defense teams cannot change based on attacker. So rainbow defense teams and color matching corners defense teams are generally good for defense.

Considering the above attack team power is usually lower than defense team power.

Encouraging trophy dropping

let’s say your idea works I predict it will have the opposite effect and cause more trophy dropping.

I stopped using Wu Kong on defense ( Wu Kong is an attacker ) when I got 4* 4.70 Jackal then replaced Jackal with Joon 5* 3.70
.

If I care about revenge ( I do not ) and your idea of my defense is used as the attacker then I will use Wu Kong, Jackal, Joon, Melendor, Rigard. Which means attackers will triple stack purple, but when I revenge my triple yellow will destroy them.

Meanwhile non-revenge attackers will be faced by a defense team with lower trophies than the best defense heroes I can field, Hansel, Rigard, Boldtusk, Grimm, Joon. Encouraging me to defense team trophy drop.

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I don’t understand why some people hate cup droppers… I love them. Easy +5 to my hero chest. They will revenge me later?! So what? I already got my 5 easy kills and opened my chest. Let them revenge! I have nothing to loose.

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