Classes and the defense meta

[Kerridoc]

People have been clamoring for a change-up in the meta to dethrone Guinevere. Welcome to Classes. Goodbye, Guinevere. Hello, Gravemaker.

I base my prediction on two observations:

1. Guinevere is not greatly benefited by her Wizard classing, with its skill that may increase damage depending on the buffs on the foes. Sure, her tile/slash attack may benefit, but that’s far weaker than other Wizards whose specials do direct damage (e.g. Sartana).
2. There are many other Wizards that are better served with available Wizard Emblems.
3. Top defenses are crowded with Wizards.

On point 3, @Razor’s data shows the following as the top defenders in use (based on top 100 teams):

Hero	Rank	Class
Gravemaker	1	Barbarian
Guinevere	2	Wizard
Zeline	3	Wizard
Alasie	4	Ranger
Sartana	5	Wizard
G. Panther	6	Fighter
Drake Fong	7	Monk
Victor	8	Wizard
Hel	9	Wizard
Lianna	10	Ranger
Misandra	11	Fighter
Mother North	12	Cleric
Delilah	12	Fighter
Marjana	14	Rogue
Joon	14	Monk
Magni	14	Fighter
Khiona	14	Rogue

So in these top 17 defensive heroes, we have:

• 5 Wizards
• 4 Fighters
• 2 each of Monk, Ranger and Rogue
• 1 each of Barbarian and Cleric

It seems stunningly clear that those with Gravemaker will use their Barbarian emblems on him – Grimm is the only other good candidate for them, IMO, and GM is very useful on both offense and defense. So look to see Gravemaker consolidate his growing dominance on defensive teams.

Emblems are going to force some hard thinking on individuals and alliances: Do you focus on defensive teams to win wars and hold cups? or on titan specialists? The titan option may become particularly interesting when SGG re-releases 13* and 14* titans.

If you’re using Emblems to build your defenses, then my thinking is that the best strategy is to have five good heroes from five different classes, so that each can move up independently. So we’ll see teams like:

Misandra / Mother North / Gravemaker / Hel / Drake Fong
Alasie / Gravemaker / Delilah / Zeline / Victor

But I think in a month or so, Guinevere tanks will be a fading memory.

[Cruzcampo]

What’s your thoughts on Paladin tanks?

[General_Confusion]

How was Victor with Jinx…that leaped out at me as I was looking at the skills as a possible OP situation…not for tank, but just for general damage for a very fast hero.

[Elpis]

While i totally agree that Gravemaker is a safe bet on barbarian coins, i do not think he will be the next most used tank and the reason is really simple: his most damage comes from DoT, but DoT doesn’t benefit at all from his increased stats.
So people have an upgraded GM that basically do the same damage as before. (Just a little more from increased direct hit)

I honestly think we will see many different teams from this point.

[FraVit93]

So Gravemaker, the blood stained druid, is a barbarian. I’m confused

[Gryphonknight]

@Kerridoc

People have been clamoring for a change-up in the meta to dethrone Guinevere. Welcome to Classes. Goodbye, Guinevere. Hello, Gravemaker.

I base my prediction on two observations:

1. Guinevere is not greatly benefited by her Wizard classing, with its skill that may increase damage depending on the buffs on the foes. Sure, her tile/slash attack may benefit, but that’s far weaker than other Wizards whose specials do direct damage (e.g. Sartana).
2. There are many other Wizards that are better served with available Wizard Emblems.
3. Top defenses are crowded with Wizards.

I think this is wishful thinking.

==Guinevere gets tankier==

8/8 5* 4.80 Guinevere to 5*+17 Defense/ HP build goes from Defense 778 to Defense 899 and HP 1347 to 1527. Luckily for attackers, her Heal Over Time does not scale with her HP.

Most talents have such a low proc rate, they only really change the hero on war defense teams. War attackers can skip your defense, but not re-roll you thanks to revive timers. Thus a good war defense team can lock up war points if no one wants to attack it. Even if you are correct, and Guinevere is dethroned for war defense, I see her staying viable for raid defense.

None of the anti-Guinevere heroes have really caught on because they are niche.

If the Devs introduce and anti-talent hero, Guinevere having a poor class actually works in favor of spending Emblems to boost her Defense and HP.

==Hel and Guinevere ( together they fight crime )==

Hel is popular, but players could split emblems between Hel and Guinevere given the way Emblems scale Defense on a 5* talent grid.

MY PERSONAL OPINION
I do see more players without a good center hero experimenting with some of the defensive classes to see which of their heroes is the most annoying.

With partial Emblem reset for gems and full reset for tokens, people are going to play it safe, not try quirky builds. I expect to see a lot of Alberich, Mother North, Guinevere, Delilah, etc. go the straight Defense/ HP build for 5*+17. You can see HP’s effect. Defense scales non-linear. You can see the impact of this talent grid with Titan stats. While balancing Attack, and mana gain, are trickier calculations. Unlike Pokemon GO, you cannot predict which Titans, or war opponent, you will be fighting so going the safe route will make sense for even more people. I hope after the 6 month data mine reveals copy, after copy, after copy, of heroes, the Devs will reconsider respec costs.

==Gravemaker==

@FraVit93

So Gravemaker, the blood stained druid, is a barbarian. I’m confused

The origins of GRAVEMAKER

I wrote this based on the druid/barbarian class discussion inspired by the inimitable Zero. She cradled the great bears head on her lap, bitter tears flowing through the matted fur, moistening the lifeless eyes. She caressed his ears, pushed her face into his and wept. Stretching away from her, the bears mutilated carcass told a story of a brutal death - exposed, blood-soaked flesh where the sumptuous hide of glowing runes had been. “PEACE, BRIENNE” murmured the deep rumble of Horghall. “Pe…

[FraVit93]

I’ve already saw that story but the card states “druid”

@FraVit93

Ok, so multiclass.

[madmarv]

Victor and Zeline are both Wizards. I too think that red tank war defenses will dominate because of the GM tank + Zel flank combo. The other positions are flexible but not all that diverse. Probably a Del or another healer as the right flank and fast wings.

I disagree that Guin will be fading back from the limelight. Those who have her are very likely to improve her anyway just because her SS has not been usurped as the king/queen of all tank abilities. The game has simply encouraged others to boost the stats of everyone but Guin first. Given time, and a steady supply of emblems, people will max Guin eventually. And a Guin at 80+20 will still be a dominant tank.

Does Wound really add that much to Gravemaker’s value? Or was it his placement in a class of full of second class heroes that will make people more likely to max him first?

If you look at the long term, not all that much has changed.

[Ichigo]

is that blue coin? @Kerridoc

[CawLeary]

I mean I understand the idea is to tone her down but the wizard talent literally doesn’t effect her other than defensive stat buffs (which any hero can choose).

The vast majority of the class are nukers which makes sense because Jinx adds damage. Guin doesnt do damage. I would argue she makes the most sense as a cleric.

Anyways I’m sure this isn’t an original thought but it just seems like an un-creative way to try and forcibly change tank meta. As a guin owner I’ll probably just max her defensively anyways and roll with it.

[AirHawk]

Barbaric shaman perhaps

[FraVit93]

Or maybe just…

[madmarv]

IMO Guin’s dominance as tank hasn’t taken a hit in the long term. Gravemaker was put into a Class that benefit’s his ability but not in an overwhelming way. He is also the only A-list hero in the Barbarians so everyone is likely to take him to 80+20.

Eventually if there are enough Wizard emblems dropping in loot, quests and shop sales, the competition among Wizards will ease and all the Guins out there will get to 80+20 and the defense meta will be back to where it is today.

[Kerridoc]

@Elpis

his most damage comes from DoT, but DoT doesn’t benefit at all from his increased stats.

Wrong; the DoT is directly tied to the troop-modified attack stat. A +20 GM was dealing out gruesome damage in beta; I don’t recall the exact number.

It’s not that Wound is a great skill; it’s that there’s really no one else to use those Emblems on of remotely the same quality. Most other classes force some tough choices about where hard-earned emblems go.

[littleKAF]

That is a token for use in the talent grid. Part of the new class system.

[zodd]

@Gryphonknight

8/8 5* 4.80 Guinevere to 5*+17 Defense/ HP build goes from Defense 778 to Defense 899 and HP 1347 to 1527

Yeah, guin will be OP as hell. I raid guins all day long and even with my full purple team (Hel,Khiona,Sartana,Merlin,Rigard) it sometimes happens that she doesn’t die after 3 tiles. With new stats it will happen regularly. That extra tile is often the difference between victory and defeat. In fact I hate losing mana from those 3 tiles more than eating her special before getting any purple tiles.

[FraVit93]

@zodd

Yeah, guin will be OP as hell.

I think that at first every tank that require heavy stacking would be “OP”.
Think about a Morgan Le Fay with a HP > DEF > ATK (Mana) build

[Sullust]

How would Ares do as a center in a full defense/hp build compared to the other tanks at 80+20?

Does the fact that he is a paladin, makes the gap closer against Guin or GM for example? Or is it still not enough for him to be a top tank?

[FraVit93]

Ares is already a top tank and the defense will surely help him to be even better.

@Kerridoc How would Paladin’s talent work with other +DEF or -DEF status effects?

[Radar1]

My Khagan isn’t barbarian, this is really confusing