Chat ban in the game- More warning, More transparency, More leniency

I totally agree,

I was banned for 30 days a few days ago.
I never cursed or use vulgar language. I always say hi and talk to most of the chatters.
Ask around, they know me.
Ok, i posted some ads regularly, but almost everyone does that.
But when there are people who make a sport from it to report people, that’s not a nice thing to do.
Just block the people, and you won’t see them in chat.

I filled in a request at SG to investigate the matter because i had the feeling that someone is deliberatly reporting just for the fun of it. But the response was something like “someone reported you and we investigated it and came to the conclusing that iposted ads which floods global chat and that’s not allowed.” Case closed. (Did they really investigate?)
And then again, “floods” is a bit exaggerated.

Thx for posting this @Datootfary and maybe SG will consider to make it so that those ridiculous chat bans can’t occur anymore.
Because after that 30 days ban, i’m gonna walk on eggs when i start recruiting again in AR.

Kind Regards

12 Likes

The initial post was not regarding individual bans (which SG does not discuss).

I am monitoriting this thread; please keep to topic as I would really like to see the positive suggestions I know the community can provide on this important topic.

If it descends into individual cases, I will have to close the thread.

9 Likes

Yes let’s talk about the problem and suggestions to correct it. I want this to be a constructive discussion.

6 Likes

Hi, rook. I think no one is trying to have anything be personal here, but just giving examples of their experiences. I don’t have any personal problems using chat, but I have some friends who have. One of which said they were banned permanently because it was their second infraction… The first infraction, according to SG, took place over a year before that player started playing the game.

Between that player’s experience and traggeter’s, it seems the investigation process might need to be looked into.

Many of the people I know that have been banned from chat are very helpful and friendly people. I love being able to talk to them, even though we’re not in the same alliance. So it affects the whole community, not just those being banned.

I think something similar to what Facebook has in place would work well. There are a set list of options for why you are reporting (e.g. Profanity, racism, flaming, etc). Then SG would know what to look for when investigating. If none of that appears and it turns out to be spamming, then perhaps SG could block the player in question on the reporting person’s behalf.

7 Likes

Sorry about that @Rook,

Won’t happen again. Did’t know we where not allowed to post individual cases. Please remove it at your own leisure.

Kind Regards

2 Likes

Forum Rules #14 states:

I know not everyone has had a chance to read the rules, but it’s a good idea to familiarize yourself with them: :slight_smile:

https://forum.smallgiantgames.com/t/forum-rules-please-read/

3 Likes

If you ban people for posting ads in a recruit chat room, you should ban ppl for carrying on irrelevant conversations in those rooms as well. I don’t post ads or chat in those rooms but on occasion I read them and it is mostly irrelevant conversations that can flood that room which then leads to more ad spamming.

I seems unlikely but it would nice to have a list of alliances in various power ranges where you could click on the range of power/titan level you want and read static ads that could be updated as needed.

12 Likes

@Rook, @Kerridoc, can we have a (minor) exception to that rule, or more leniency than usual for this thread–just to allow a few examples that illustrate what people are asking for or concerned about, as a way to support general discussion of the overall issues and positive suggestions on how to improve it?

6 Likes

People who “hang out” in AR just to chat are a huge problem. It’s a room for recruiting. There are several other rooms for chatting. If you aren’t recruiting you shouldn’t be in AR. It’s not a social room, it’s the only place thousands of alliances have to recruit members. Recruiting shouldn’t be viewed as an interruption of someone’s personal conversation. Take it elsewhere. Also the “role playing” in general chat and elsewhere has no business in any game chat room.

15 Likes

I agree, General chat is more suitable for that.

2 Likes

Talking about money, If a player who invested a lot of money and get banned from the game.
Do they get a refund for the money they spended?

4 Likes

I believe the answer to that question is in the Terms of Service:

http://info.smallgiantgames.com/terms-of-service/


Back to topic…

3 Likes

Patient Zero or Victim Jane Doe

Why do you have to?

It is classic textbook authorship to file off the serial number.

“User B was 30 day banned for a minor infraction!”

Who wants to clean up after a party?

As a chat moderator on Book of Heroes, in my experience the situation with User B comes from a long moderation history on the account. Staff want to bend over backwards to NOT ban you.

It is easier to have false positives with a lenient ban policy than to try and tune the algorithm to only catch abusers. But this often leans to users taking the leniency for granted and slowly building up a huge history of infractions until the infractions show they need to chill out and hand the recruiting position over to someone with less infractions on their history.

We can not have nice things

This is also why most modern MMOs make name changes so difficult. Consistent names is on of the main ways to combat public perception that an innocent was wronged wronged when in reality an account with 256 infractions just changed their name to Tiny Tim and has “absolutely no idea why their account is hammered with a 12 month ban for accidentally posting two adverts too close together.”

Because. Humans.

No one response positively to a ban and most trolls have a large gang of friends, sometimes trolls, sometimes not trolls, sometimes a mix of both, who are not afraid to make their displeasure known.

This is especially common with alliance adverts because people hate being the guild recruiter but many trolls enjoy combining their hobby with “work” for their alliance.

This is especially common with popular personalities because people love to listen to a cool person, but the cool person often is more concerned with the chat conversation than the rules. And are often rewarded by their audience for skirting the edge of the rules.

Additionally every user who views the current Kerfuffle does not have access to 2 years of moderation history for the account so believes the person.

Bans are never the first thought in Staff’s head. Okay I lie. Bans are always the very first thought when a jerk starts picking on one of my friends and fellow moderators. But our fifth or sixth thoughts are “do they have enough rope to hang themselves in their moderation history, or do they get a slap on the wrist THIS time”.

But for actually honest to goodness newbies, my first thought is “Sigh. Time to explain the rules for the gazillionth time”.

Everyone wants people to feel free to chat and ask questions and get help and give help and be a vibrant chat community. It is why bored trolls are such a bane. Bored chat moderator baiting trolls are just the worst.

Hidden warnings hidden moderation history

One of the first things a newbie chat mod runs into is the friend who wants a screen shot of their chat moderation history.

It is nature to be curious about how things work.

But trolls, and bored users, will often set up a game involving their moderation history. So most modern MMOs do not display moderation actions in public channels, do not allow users to view their own moderation history and kick any moderator who flagrantly abuses their status to send moderation history screen shots to other users.

8 Likes

Because so many of the issues seem to come from chatters vs recruiters and what/where/how much they are doing of either one of those things, I truly believe one of the best ways to help some of this is to have a better alliance search. Right now you can only set it to cups required, open or invite.

If there was some way to add other things for use in some sort of search filter I think the frenzy in the game chat rooms would be decreased tremendously.

There could be things like cups, team power, player level, country/language, active or casual etc.

And agree with another idea someone posted, about some clear rules/guidelines, maybe posted as a popup when you click on the tab to enter that room, for the different chat rooms as to what is and isn’t allowed/acceptable.

10 Likes

In my experience with games like this, one thing that can be done is to cap the amounts of reports people can make. In some games the more you report, the more you are restricted. I would like to think this would help in volume and if communication is given to this effect, you will have less boarderline reports and less using it as a way to bully.

To deal with new accounts being made to harass or spam report, make it so that lower levels get less, and you get more with time. Encouragement to block should be done and I too would like to see “bannable offenses” in the banners for each room. I know that offensive comments/name calling/other horrible things can be bannable in each room and should be. However if you want recruiting in AR, maybe make sure when players start and gain access to chat they start in AR and make sure that everyone knows that’s the place for recruitment.

Maybe also have in the banner where general discussion can be and where you can go for advice (like peer support or 20+).

I really think limiting those who get report happy will cause less headaches for everyone AND most other games like this do this.

I also think an appeal process needs to be in place. People use real money to play. People also use this to cyber bully others, and I am surprised at the lack of response regarding this issue.

5 Likes

The problem is that this is impossible to really regulate chat/content on a large scale without MASSIVE costs. SGG is a small team that wants to make games, not regulate chat and such for a game where a million people a day login and play.

The easiest way to accomplish anything like that with minimal costs and distractions from making games is to give a small team large hammers and tell them to whack anything that looks bad. The other option is to train a large team of surgeons and use precision scalpels, but that costs far too much and no one wants to do it.

These types of issues and costs are the reason there’s no in-game private messaging and why the forum software is set for only mods and staff to PM - they don’t want to have to deal with all the nanny behavior they’d have to do with that (unless they didn’t allow anyone under 18 as many countries have much stricter laws on private communications to minors).

4 Likes

Most people are not all one thing or all the other. It is entirely possible for nice, helpful people to say or do things from time to time which are very problematic.

I’m not saying that SG doesn’t make mistakes. I’m sure they have made some, with as many reports as they must get.

What I am saying, though, is that unless we actually witnessed the post(s) that resulted in staff action, it’s really hard to know whether the decision was a good or bad one.

4 Likes

Opportunity costs

^^^ This

You do not want to know some of the stuff that happens in whisper and PM on Book of Hero game app and forum software. And some poor Devs HAS to read that stuff.

Budgeted costs

Please, please, download Line, Discord, something and let a Dev team with time already Budgeted for this handle the situation.

Alliance Featured Message

P.S. I think the alliance Featured Message was a nice new feature. Especially since it is longer and you can include more alliance rules and Line groups, Discord servers and Facebook groups so list members can re establish contact.

4 Likes

Hello,

I totally agree with @Datootfary and @Traggeter. Yeah @Gryphonknight has his point. So to have discussion impartial, and also not to discuss about bans and keep it constructive here is my idea.

SG please make in each chat room short rules. What is allowed and what is not. Also in alliance recruitment room make 5 minutes ban for everyone who send message. That means after sending message, alliance and or something you can’t write next one for next 5 minutes. Ofc. you can change this time, this is just proposition. But with this solution you get three advantages. 1. No more free chatting in ARR. 2. Saves your time for watching and checking reports for spam. 3. Rules are obeyed for everyone and you can orient for banning for real bad things like racism or vulgar language. Please, just consider this.

6 Likes

I suspect that some people receive disciplinary measures for flooding ads; excessive offensive language; offensive player names; etc … but ignoring specific instances, you sometimes see excessive posts in Alliance Recruiting because the posts fly by.

Here are a few suggestions:

  1. split alliance chat into: ‘purely recruiting’; ‘merc hangout’; and ‘recruiters only’
  2. limit ads programmatically to no more than one per minute (in ‘purely recruiting’ forums)
  3. post rules

There is a LOT of chatting going on… by separating the current chat forums, you can reduce the amount of stuff flies by. Make ‘purely recruiting’ be just that… ads, ad responses and related questions. No hi hi hi hi…

Make area for merc recruiting / hangout… people look for mercs… separate them out for less chatter in main recruiting forum. Have a place where Alliance Recruiters / friends can chat … no ads just chat…

Limiting ad posts programmatically will minimize having to block spammers (or those with absolutely no sense of color)… could even limit the number of posts into the Alliance Recruiting forum daily … 20 maybe?

Anyway, hopefully a few ideas… :blush:

3 Likes