Change the raids, give top players new motivation

My cups fluctuate every day between 2450 and 2700. No matter what I do, I am always in diamond league.
Typically I reach 2700+ during the day, go offline and then bunch of people attacks me, I lose 150 to 250 and start again.

Guys, I do not have motivation. Always diamond, always fluctuating. Would it be possible to make it more stable and more motivating:

  • Add new Top league 2600+ (top players get motivation to be better).
  • Change the cup algorithm a bit. Now you can easily lose or gain 40 points in one attack. What if the computation is more flat?
  • Maybe good might be that, if somebody is up, he would not been attacked so massivelly. Imagine how cool it would be to stay in top 1000 for the whole day.
  • And what about adding long term rank. For example based on your 7 days cups average?

To understand my point of view: In our alliance (Seven days ascended) you are typicly in one day on the last place and the first place. Same day. Sometimes twice. I do not even bother to look at it.

Same with Quests. At this level of playing I do not have to be creative to win any of it. The days when I was thinking about every move are gone. I simply chose a healer, debufer, snipers and mana manipulators and without much effort and thinking I win. Could you add some real “puzzle” levels for top players. Where even with great 5* roster you have to think about it, try it several times before success? The reward does not have to be ascension materials. 200 000 food might be good motivation as well. Or world energy flask.

I quite like some of your ideas. Certainly an aggregated weekly rank or similar would be interesting.

But perhaps the devs would say, that’s why we gave you tournaments?

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It should be change to battle based on team power not trophies.

You are right, tournaments bring challenges. Thanks to it.
Some more challenges would be appreciated.

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Agree with you Papca! More challenging quests and content for experienced/high level players would be really nice. As it is today almost nothing offers a real challenge.

Can’t say I’d agree with tournaments being a good replacement for that lack tho. They are excellent for making use of your roster in different ways. No, Im hoping they create new quests with better materials, much like the difference between s1 o s2. Haven’t tried but I think I could probably auto farm any level of s1 except final stage against the dark lord. Thats not nearly the case in s2. By all means keep the “worthless” ham/XP/recruits quests for newer players, but for me at least they are rarely worth playing. For instance I’d love to see a quest with “infinite” levels getting increasingly harder (better loot) so you can try to beat your own scores or others.

Agree Aussie that would be a good change since cups isn’t a viable measurement for the challenge the opponent offers. Especially with cup droppers or less active players.

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Might even get to use the Miracle scrolls then which supposedly is the most valuable/expenssive item in forge and I haven’t used a single one in over 1,5 years. Probably will be useful against 13-14 star titans tho.

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Yep, Fredster. Infinite levels might be fun. Maybe even getting harder for every level.

My favorite proposal for addressing the OP’s question is long but worth the read:

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I’m in your position too. O really dislike Tha fact that we are raided several times at same time, and that affect the Cups too much. Because doesn’t give time to cup drop from 1 attacker to another. And we are more visible the attackers.

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K-Factor

The Devs have decided on a K-Factor of 61.

Reducing this would severely reduce the number of players opening a Diamond chest, the second highest source of 4* ascension items.

Seasonal Leaderboards

Devs could add seasons. Usually 3-12 months per season.

Seasonal leaderboard often have one leaderboard for finishing rank and a second leaderboard for most trophies gained in the season.

Trophies gained ignore any trophies you lose and just track how many trophies you win. Since it resets at the start of next season, the higher you are, the more active you were this season. This encourages using all your raid energy instead of just opening your chests.

It is always fun in a game with seasonal leaderboards to look back at past Top 100.

Pins

Many games give you seasonal PvP pins.

For example you might get a pin for finishing Season 3 in the Top 10 rank or Top 10 trophies gained.

These seasonal pins could be placed in the lower left of your avatar.

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Sounds like an interesting proposal @Kerridoc :+1:!
Can’t say I’m that bothered anymore by the cups as they’ve lost all meaning. Raiding is all about filling my chest and getting food/iron as it is now.

@Gryphonknight: pls explain more about K-factor? And severely reduced means? As it feels now diamond is accessible within a few months of gameplay, which is strange since SG is all about longevity/patience when they talk about other things. Staying in diamond thru def is ofc the challenge. But would be interesting to have a little more skill/power based challenges so you feel there is still things to achieve after long and dedicated service :wink:

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What about a choice between what could be raided? For instance, if I would raid for someone’s iron, trophies gained would be lowered. If I was after rank, lower gained resources. Right now when you raid, you get it all. Far as I see it, there could be some simple tweaking on what’s there to make raids more interesting. Plus, maybe add/use a positive multiplier for winnings if using a lower TP score then the defense and a negative multiplier if TP is higher.

+/- 2% every 100tp?

Raids are, above all, a matter of pure luck. A medium power attack team, made of heroes available for everybody, on a good board will take out any defense. ABSOLUTELY ANY DEFENSE. Yesterday I took out Blazing Down’s leader, Wormwood, using nothing but TC20 4 and 5* heroes. And he had a hell of a defense… A Yunan+9 tank, 3 x Gravemaker (one of them +9, the other two 4/80) and a +7 Drake. I can’t think of a much better defense setup… At +9, Yunan’s stats are off the chart… and if you manage to take him out, there are not one or two, but three Gravemakers waiting for you… and a blinding Drake… regular nightmare… no level of skill or knowledge will get you through that fight and still, vanilla heroes managed to take it down… lucky board, red diamond on the first move, Boldtusk, Elena and Azlar charged on move two, game over… pure luck.
A 2600+ league has no roots in reality, as there are virtually no defenses that can hold 2600 cups indefinitely. 2650 cups get you into top 650 teams, out of what? 1.5 million active players?

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Exactly. This is why, I would propose to change the algorithm of cup gains/loss at the same time.

I’ve started a new approach where I drop into platinum and raid back into diamond for chests. The rest of the time I ignore raid flags. Less frustrating, however; if unfarmable ascension items would be given I would definitely start climbing back into the 2700s. Ranking system doesn’t matter at the moment other than for chests.

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The K-factor in an ELO system like E&P raids determines how “sticky” your ranking is. The general formula is:

R’ = R + K(A - E)
where
R == your old trophy count
R’ == your new trophy count
A == your actual score in a raid
E == your expected score

E is tricky to calculate, too, but it’s a variation of

your trophies / (your trophies + foe’s trophies)

So if you have more trophies, the expected outcome is >50%.

Bottom line: lower K and it will reduce the number of trophies won or lost in any raid.

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Defense

This is by design ( see notes)

Leaderboards

This is why many PvP games include trophies gained leaderboards.

I just remembered that they multiple your trophies gained by the Team Power of your opponent and a constant.

Example
+30 trophies * Team Power 4000 * 0.001 = 120 PvP points for the activity Leaderboard

Seasonal pins

The Challenge events have snipers but PvP gets totally insanely busy when a season is about to end because it is you only chance to get that Season’s rank pin and PvP troop.

Having a defense that could hold #1 for a month would remove this mad scramble. Similar to allowing the first person to finish Knight’s Legendary tier to get #1

Notes

Click for notes

Game design

Boring math discussion:

Prisoner’s Dilemma

FIN

I love the various ideas in this proposal, in addition I would like to add that the max no. of cups gain /loss sometimes in raids, imo appears to be too high; that, not only devalues the cups, it also makes it too easy to transverse raid arenas , going up or down and down sometimes to the advantage of cup droppers.

Now, what if the max number of possible cups that could be lost or won in any raid is reduced by a factor of say 10, in the case of 50 cups for example >> becomes like just 5 , then a slightly more value is given to the cups, players would play harder to steadily gain more and then when you lose/win , the total number of cups would not be so astronomically high to the effect of quickly or immediately bringing players out of one arena to the other.

A little bit of value on the cups vs arenas differential loot boosts would add more meaning to the current raid system.

At least with live PvP, many MMOs go in the opposite direction with large conditional increases in K-Factor for new Seasons and lower arenas.

Ahem……as an FTP it took me about 9 month to establish myself at the border of diamond league. Meaning I am opening my chests in diamond but from time to time I am bombed down to around 2300 cups. Another half year has gone by and I am still in the same Position. ( it will change in the forseeable future though :smile: )

I wouldnt call that an easy achieveable goal.

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