Change Rush Attack Wars

The rush attack war may have been well meaning and a good idea in principal to encourage players to use heroes that they rarely use. However, this has led to an extremely broken and degenerate format that emphasises luck even more. E&P is a game which is a combination of both skill and luck, and while you cannot mitigate for bad RNG all the time, a skilful player will often be able to eek a win out of a marginal board.

The Metagame
At the moment there seems to be two distinct strategies for higher level wars.

  1. Running Alfrikke (aka Freaky) as tank, with resurrectors (e.g. Mother North, Alby) - if Alfrikke goes off early, this will often be game over to the attacking team.
  2. Running Heimdall as tank with multiple resurrectors - if Heimdall goes off early, between the health boost and the multiple resurrectors, this will often lead to a time out victory.

The Problem
One of the key balancing aspect of the game is that hero specials are often tied to their mana speed with more powerful effects taking longer to charge. When everything is set to very fast, and with the help of mana troops, 6 tiles is all you need to get very powerful effects to go off. Setting things to very fast means that you have even less time to turn an average board around. Sometimes, even an opening diamond or a cascade would mean death to your team and many battles are lost with a single move.
It doesn’t matter if you are @Uclapack or @Xero786 with a stacked roster, it doesn’t really matter if you are going rainbow/ 2-2-1/ 3-2/ 4-1/ mono because when it is all said and done your war hits come down to a coin flip.

The Fix?
Rather than have all mana speed set at Very Fast, instead I propose setting the mana speed to Average. This will have the dual benefit of ensuring that slow/ very slow heroes (who don’t see as much play) become more useful while diminishing the use of very fast/ fast heroes like Gravemaker who are ubiquitous particularly in higher level wars.
Is this fix perfect? No. But it definitely is better than the dumpster fire that is very fast wars we currently have.

p/s @Guvnor I could not find a similar topic like this, but apologise if this was missed and if so can this be merged.

I think that VF tournies are a bit broken as very strong tanks are almost always guaranteed to go off at least once, skewing the battle from the get-go. VF wars however give you a fighting chance as you can go the storng color against the tank, and so have a good chance of taking it out. Then, the important thing to remember is that whilst the opponent is going to go off much quicker - SO ARE YOU! 6 or 7 tiles and there is a good chance you have won, and 6 or 7 tiles is usually pretty attainable. Now you are right that you have to modify your board strategies - setting off diamonds, causing cascades are tried and true strategies to force your colors to come through but in VF battles there is a very high risk that doing this will trigger enemy specials and end the battle. So apart from chosing heroes differently you also have to play the board differently. Aim for minimal impact moves which still have a chance of obtaining your colors. Target specific heroes/avoid specific heroes much more than you would otherwise do in other formats. I would agree that the element of luck goes up slightly - say from 25% luck 75% skill to 35% luck 65% skill - but skill in hero selection and skill in board manipulation are still the overwhelming factors

3 Likes

I personally find rush attack wars very fun to play. Those 0 points fly thick and fast at times and it is a joy (and pain) to see.

The main issue I see with respect to hero specials, mana and game balance is… SGG aren’t particularly good at this aspect of the game. There’s a fundamental issue concerning hero balance at the heart of the game, which remains unfixed, and isn’t necessarily a rush attack war issue. Alas, it’s also an issue which will likely go unfixed.

6 Likes

I guess it depends on your alliances level. If you are at the very top of the tree then yes, tonnes of Alfrike with all of the meta heroes sat next to them.

But get below the top 100 and it’s very good defences but not all meta teams…some for sure but not all.

Personally I love how it’s made some pretty unloved heroes very useable. Khagan and Quintus are awesome in V.fast. Who would have thought it? Having your healers like Vivica and Raffaele going in 6 or 7 is also amazing.

But sure it’s a bit boom or bust but it’s the same for both sides IMHO.

6 Likes

Rush has never been fun in tourneys to begin with. Don’t know why they think putting rush in wars is a good thing. Fighting against a stall team in rush is a nightmare. I would say increase mana speed by one stage instead

  • Fast becomes very fast
  • Average becomes fast
  • Slow becomes average
  • Very slow becomes slow
  • Very fast will stay the same

And that would be balanced

11 Likes

I enjoy the VF war and tourney. The luck goes both ways. And it’s not every war. Just 2 out of 12 wars. The recent VF war where everyone ran Gunnar tanks, that was a fun challenge for everyone.

Also, I should point out that I have a bunch of leveled up slow heroes with emblems because I’m VC2P and have bad heroes that are slow.

4 Likes

Alfrike ruins very fast wars for me. Any other tank and they are fine and could be fun. With an Alfrike tank you literally rely on a starting board because there is no way to overcome if you can’t get 6 tiles before she fires. Facing 15+ alfrike tanks is not fun. I can see the fun in making slow heroes fast and can see how this could be really fun for outside of top 10 alliances. It may just be something the top 10 needs to deal with. You can see in my war hits how devastating alfrike can be when she fires. I had one of my worst wars and wasn’t because I brought bad heroes, just when facing multiple alfrikes there is no coming back when she fires

8 Likes

I am also falling into the side of enjoying the VF wars as a nice change. It might be different if I had to face the defence teams like @Uclapack and others at the top level face with multiple Alfrike tanks. But even then its 1 war type out of 5 types.

I actually had my best ever war performance this weekend pasts war segment & have noticed a few changes I’ve made to my tile play for these wars that I think was responsible. I traditionally play much more vertical central moves to group tiles, however in this format I think it might be more optimal for the initial moves to be horizontal across WFT and not looking to group tiles for diamonds or dragons till later in the match.

I wouldnt be in favour of slowing everything to average instead of speeding up as it would lead to wars where so much is just based on tile damage and possibly no need for specials at all.

2 Likes

Interesting thought - hypothetically if they banned Alfrikke for v.fast war, the metagame will shift towards the resurrector defence. Admittedly it will require a specific set of heroes (Heimdall, MoNo, Alby) which would be less easy to assemble compared to 30 Alfrikke tanks.
I know you did pretty well vs. the Ressy defence, but some others didn’t. Rather than losing in 30 seconds vs. an Alfrikke tank, you lose in 7 minutes by time out. Death by 1,000 cuts.

Anyways I doubt they will do anything about this war since it only affects about 0.1% of the player base.

p/s I have received lots of pro-tips of using better teams and have better troops and cannot help but chuckle

1 Like

I totally agree that Rush Attack Wars break the balance of the game. And I guess that setting to average speed will break the balance too. Very slow and slow heroes are so because they very dangerous and they should be so (in mana aspect)… I don’t want to see playing with mana in the war at all.

In Raids Tournaments… possibly it can be alive idea… because I can simply escape such tournament…

But War…

Perhaps that’s true. Perhaps!
You are however just adressing the end-game alliance wars. That’s like what? Lets say… 5-10% of the players of this game?
At the moment, after over 2 years I have just 3 5* heroes outside of S1 (none of the heroes you mentioned) and 4 hotms (with only 2 of those maxed). I still don’t have all the s1 5*.

Most people focus on maxing VF or Fast heroes and just ignore the slow(er) ones. Because pow-pew-paw - dead. Some people max and play with what they have (a third of my maxed 5* are slow).

I enjoy both VF tournaments and VF wars and I wouldn’t change it, I’m very happy with it, but I’m sorry it doesn’t work for you.

1 Like

I have seen VF wars at a upper mid-level and a high end alliance. Long story short: mid-level is a lot of fun, top end not so much.

You can reliably win with good odds even against top defs in VF tournaments. So it is not just luck.

But I haven’t (and guess nobody has) leveled enough such heroes for six war teams against only high end defs. So you basically can either spread your good heroes thin, or focus on maybe two good war teams. In both cases, you have many “coin flip” attacks.

On top of that, there is no possibility to practice. So, it is tough to know what works and what doesn’t (and therefore what to level).

To sum up: I’d really like a way to practise. And I would need more of an incentive to level the heroes I need for VF war attack teams. But the format works for most alliances, so I guess top end alliances just have to live with it.

For me, I want this feature maintained. I don’t have a lot of very strong heroes and I don’t have Alfrike. So far, I have 4 slow heroes maxed, i.e. Azlar, Alberich, Snow White and Mother North. In this last very fast war, I tanked Telly+20 (supported by level 25 crit troop) and flanked to the left by Snow White+18 (supported by level 25 mana troop) and flanked to the right by Drake Fong+19 (supported by level 25 mana troop) and at the left wing is Alberich+19 (supported by level 17 mana troop) and at the right wing is maxed unemblemed Mother North (supported by level 11 crit troop). That team died 3x times, but it was never oneshotted, most of the time enemy was using 3 flags.

Managed to make 6 out of 6 oneshot hits. I like facing Alfrike tanks on wars.

Maybe I was just lucky last war. I want to see how I fare next very fast war soon.

I think, rush wars and tourneys should be set to fast only. Including vf to fast as well.
Then those 2 or 3 extra tiles will give away slight survivability. Other than that Alfrike is not fun to hit. :joy:.
Me have Alfrike 20 nodes.
But overall its fun to play rush wars.
Coz me having 50% of slow heros. :joy:
My justice is really amazing.
Last war she fired, lvl 11 mana troop. Then the gascade fired Alfrike and all cubes miss. :joy:.
Thats what i want ti see. :joy:
That made my day. :smiling_face_with_three_hearts::smiling_face_with_three_hearts:

The Rush attack wars work well for me, and my slow characters are normal Quintus, Elena, Azlar, Mother North and costumed Horghall.
But, on the attack I have mana controllers like Proteus, Leonidas, Merlin, Peters, costume Li Xiu and costume Chao. So the fact that I can charge them up in 6 tiles means that there are lots of opportunities for me to negate the defenses. There’s also a change in thinking as I don’t need to stack colors, in fact, rainbow is best since I can charge any hero in 2 matches. One of my last fights was great, I kept getting purple matches and just used Proteus to almost singlehandedly win the fight by locking down the defense the majority of the time.

Easy way to fix this Remove all war boosts let’s go Attack v. Defence

1 Like

I thought everything was fast. I kinda like this idea. You hope you’ll have a good team and a good board to win. Facing against a reviving team is a nightmare.

Although I also like and enjoy VF war as it is, but then it’s going to be a lot different as you may find if all the 6 flags would be spent on fighting mainly Alfrike tanks with no other choice! It’s all similar to a scenario we were all familiar with a few months back…

Anyway, this would be just two comcecitive wars out of many in the batch…I prefer nothing be changed as it is and hopefully soon, there would be enough counter or some viable resist or better strategy against the seemingly all powerful Alfrike in VF wars/tourneys.

Let’s give a chance to those people who usually are weak on their roster .this rush war and tourney made them hope that can do something. Also it’s fun when see top players got a donut and their kingdom in danger :smiley:

Just run Vivica flanked with too fast mana hero’s if you don’t a good board she’ll just regenerate constantly with armour or as I just faced a alliance who everyone ran Vivica tanks you’ll be out dark hero’s quickly

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