Challenge Events and Newer (not NEW) Players


#1

With three challenge events out of the way, I think it’s something that could be discussed. I mean the possible involvement of newer players in the future challenge events.

Basically: I don’t see how they can stand a chance of competing with the old dogs. Anywhere.

In theory there is the Beginner tier, and let me tell you, I think it’s actually the hardest tier to climb in right now. Last event I finished in top 22 there, I pushed because after completing it without trying I was around top 100 I think. So I saw a chance.

This time around doing it in the “whatever click click” way landed me in the top 800.

What this means to me is that the ladder got really stacked. Tons of players had a chance to pimp up their teams, build fancier compositions, level up their troops.

Let me be clear: I’m not whining cause I didn’t get it. I didn’t want or try to climb there this time around.

My concern is how the events develop (and will continue to develop) with newer players in mind. I brought Beginner tier an example, because it changes the fastest, but it shows a trend that will obviously affect the other two in given time.

There are a few factors that decide your chances in the event:

  1. Luck of the boards
  2. Battle items
  3. Team composition
  4. Troop level

Now.
#1. This is simple and equally fair for everyone.

#2. This is where things get a bit lopsided. The longer you play the game, the more materials you accumulate. But it’s still not the worst, if you prepare right and use the items wisely you can do without a mad stash.

#3. Now we hit our first brick wall. Leveling heroes. Even if a newer player spends some gems and gets a bunch of nice heroes, there’s no way in hell for them to ever catch up to the older players. Fodder heroes to train and, of course, the ascension materials.

With titans/raids you can in theory get away with having 1 good team. In events soon it will be basically impossible to compete without having a team tailored for the specific color. Older players will dominate the newer ones automatically. Keep in mind, I mean newer players, not new players. Newer player might still have a year of play time under their belt (well not yet, but in a several months).

#4. Good luck power leveling troops lol. Unless you’re swimming in cash and want to spend hundreds of $$$ (or abuse the bugs lel) you are not gonna have troops anywhere near the level of the older players. And they are moving ever further away.


My point is more a question than anything else - how can newer players, several months from now, ever hope to truly participate in the Challenge Events? How can they find a challenge in the whole affair when they’re starting with such huge disadvantage that’s basically insurmountable?

Right now it’s mostly Beginner tier. But Intermediate will follow soon after. Next month we may only see people with 3 or so fully ascended heroes of the proper color dominate the boards. This time placing in top 50 without a perfect team was still doable, but will it last?

Just something to think about I think. Would be a shame if newer members of the community felt like they’re hitting a massive brick wall in the arguably most fun part of the game currently and each month just completed the boards knowing that trying for anything more fun is completely pointless.


#2

I too noticed that my rank in the beginner tier dropped significantly from last event, even though my 3* hero selection is stronger than last time. I have started to level out a few more 3* for that tier for the reasons mentioned in the OP, however it was pretty clear that lots of established players did the same thing and went into this month’s event with much stronger team comps.

I don’t really know if there is a solution without restricting who can compete in each tier, which I don’t feel is a logical solution.

Also boourns to the new tend of top players blanking their event teams on the leaderboards. lol


#3

The simplest solution would be basing the reward thresholds on the amount of points acquired as opposed to competing with others. With alliance wars coming as PvP-ish competition, this could become a simply PvE matchup. Challenge in climbing the ladders and score thresholds.

I think I suggested it somewhere before, but let the “top 1 / top 10 / top 50” get their avatars. But setting other rewards behind point-walls would even out the playing field for players who began playing this year, last year, next year, as long as they build respectable, strong teams and utilize them right.

Having some data from the events already available, SG could set the thresholds based on that, predicted growth, and whatever else they feel like. It would also make things feel more clear with the goals specified and seen.


To begin with I’d also add a Starter tier with experience limit of 20. That’s basically when things slow down and players begin to build up more sophisticated teams.

  • Items: only small healing, small mana, small antidotes. This would reduce the amount of spamming (like you spam arrows/axes) and make it easier for new players to stock up for the event.
  • Heroes either max 3* or max 2*
  • Troops, doesn’t matter, level 20 is a limit on its own.

This tier would let NEW (not newer :wink: ) players have a place to compete away from the power gamers and dedicated bunch theory crafting around each level and encounter. Put a fully-developed random 3* hero as a reward for the 1st place here and I’m sure plenty of the newbies would like to try out here.


#4

I don’t know why you so upset about. For Beginner there is lot of province to do. No offense , Have you completed the season 1? All these events and challenges are design to entertain old player who have done and completed all the game has to offer and are board not for new ones. There is alot to explore for beginner.


#5

I don’t know why you think I’m upset. And yes, I have completed season 1 long ago and I can compete in the Challenge Events.

I am actually putting myself in the shoes of players who cannot. Either because they’re just starting out with the game, or because they’re 12 months behind veterans in gathering of troops, ascension materials, and hoarding multiple fully ascended 4*/5* heroes that will allow them to be competitive in the events.

Players who start now are going to be equally bored with the content in 6 months, but in no way will they be able to stand their ground in the Challenge Events and I think it’s an issue and so I bring it forth.


#6

So you are asking to scrap all this event and challenges because it’s difficult for beginner ?


#7

Read my posts and you will know. Nowhere did I say that.


#8

I have . Sorry I don’t agree with you. So you are not beginner , be thankful to this game that they are trying their hardest to keep hold to all the experience player like your self. Enjoy the update. It’s for us.


#9

Sorry, but I don’t like to think just about myself. Since I like the game, I want the community as a whole to enjoy it, flourish, and not feel sidelined.

I am not gonna “sit and be thankful”. I’ve paid my share of “thanks” money. It’s in my interest that the game is more fun to more people and is kept alive. I don’t see why I shouldn’t speak about things I view as potentially problematic.

Imagine I bring a friend into the game. I would want them to enjoy the best it has to offer, not start knowing they will never be able to fully enjoy the most fun part of the game that currently are the Challenge Events. It can also be your friend, or a friend of anyone else’s who likes to compete. Being automatically late to the party would suck for them.


#10

Is the Challenge Event the best way to show your friends how exciting this game is? What next you want your friends to be the top ranking player… Lol , Come on. You took part in the event and completed it. You enjoyed the time and loot, should be end of the story. They did their part.


#11

I really do not understand you, but whatever. You’re entitled to your opinion, I’m entitled to mine. I guess that will have to be the end of it, as this conversation is leading nowhere :slight_smile:


#12

Yes of course… but no harm in debating. Sorry if I have offended you. I just don’t like the idea what beginner might be thinking or the intermediate are thinking because every person is guided by their own psychology. It would be nice to see if they would come and express their experience themselves,then it’s valid. Once again sorry. You have a good day Ellilea.


#13

I’m not sure what the problem is here. There are literally hundreds of thousands of people that compete in the challenge events. If the problem you’re stating is “newer players who don’t have good hero stables and not a lot of battle items aren’t going to place very high”, well that’s a correct statement. The beginner challenge had like 400,000 people score in it. Intermediate at least 150,000. top 100 is a TINY fraction of 1%. Why would you think that someone who isn’t as dedicated to the game should place in upper fraction of 1%?

Those newer players can PARTICIPATE just fine. A team of not even fully tier 3 60s can complete intermediate and get an ascension item or two. Lots of people did it with a mix of 4 and 3 stars hero teams. They just aren’t going to make the leaderboard. That’s ok. Did they have fun? Did they get to complete it and get some loot?

As a comparison, ~22,000 people in each gender ran the Chicago marathon this year. In the men’s division there are generally between 5-8 runners who can run a 2:06 or better necessary to win. Top 5 get money. Should the 21,990 who realistically have no shot at money stop participating? Did they not have fun/were challenged just by finishing? Don’t some people like the challenge of improving their times (i.e. competing with themself) over last year?

You don’t need a full team of 70s or even 60s to complete intermediate and get a colored 3 star ascension item. You don’t need even a single 80 to complete advanced and get two more. That’s a pretty good deal to me.

When Pirates came around in september, I’d been playing about six weeks. Now I’d spent a bit ~$100 or so at that time, but I was quite excited to finish intermediate and get an ascension item or two. Was I intimidated a bit by the leaderboard. A bit. Did I have fun? Absolutely. Two months later, I brought my ranking up from ~2500 to 475th. I was pleased with that given my relative lack of battle items (a few arrows axes and afew mana potions).


#14

I am not offended at all, don’t worry about it. I just figured we look at the issue from too different angles to see eye to eye. If you want me to elaborate on some point, ask. Sorry if I came off rough. I might’ve felt you haven’t really read my posts and argued points I didn’t make and I might’ve gotten unnecessarily snappy.


#15

Dante, I mean mostly how things will look in a few months. Imagine you start playing today. In 6 months you have a solid team. Meanwhile old players have troops on levels you can’t possibly achieve and a hero choice so wide you will stand no chance whatsoever to compete, even though objectively you’re strong at your given level. If know you can never make top 100, because older players will always stay ahead of you, what fun is that?

That’s why I think a point threshold would be much better for a growing community. Make it cut-throat at the top, requiring luck, items, strats, but make it finite. That means a player who played for 6-8 months (and so, end-game player) won’t automatically lose to someone who played for 12-16.

The longer the game lives, the bigger the gaps will become, and the more old players will have their things maxed and polished absolutely hogging the few spots in the events that matter.


#16

Roger that over and out. See ya around.


#17

Finish around 22th previous event on beginner, top 10 this time and top 50 advanced.

Let me tell you, it is harder on beginner because teams are rather similar, but you see the glass half empty too much.

-I training 3* to have 3 for every color just in case, but it was kinda useless cause the better team change almost nothing on various stage.
-I used the same troops of the previous event (all lv 5, not impossible with a little of time even for new players).
-Items may help, but your better scores pretty much comes without even need to use them
-Luck is the real trump card

I dont know if i may win it cause i do the wrong choices in the end (want to improve the last 2 stage already good and skip 7-8 so and so), but i used many energy on advanced and some on intermediate.

If they’ll go only for beginner, they have a chance.


#18

I think you’re on to something here. And I’m not sure how to engage more people from more stages in the game.

Maybe add a new 2* hero / 1* troop bracket?

I like the score-divider idea!
Or maybe expand use “top 1%, top 5%” etc instead of absolute placements? I saw someone propose this idea before, dont remember who though.

Interesting perspective on the event! :slight_smile:


#19

But older players don’t stay ahead forever. There’s diminishing returns at the top. You can only have 5 heroes in play. At intermediate a full team of 70s is a full team of 70s. Once you have 2 good 70s in each color, you’re making tiny, incremental progress from there. Troops are the same way, especially since many concentrate on 4 star troops, which you can’t use in intermediate. In both cases, player reach the point of crazy amounts of food and troops to level troops. a 10 level difference in troops (say 15 vs 5) is only a difference of 2-3% in each stat the troop gives.

Again, making the top fraction of 1% in anything is REALLY REALLY HARD. Whether it’s basketball, tennis, poker, this game.

If you’re talking about players who don’t spend a lot or very much, it’s likely those players will not be able to keep up. But for people who spend a bit (and it doesn’t have to be forever, just to round out a nice team) will always have an advantage.


#20

I don’t know, with how much difference a 1k difference in score can make, the troop levels alone seem quite crucial.

Having two good 70s in each color, two good 80s in each color, two good 3* troops in each color, 2 good 4* troops in each color takes absolutely forever, whether you pay or not (and you can add 3* heroes and 2* troops for completionists :wink: )

Then, let’s say you start playing today and fork out a solid bit of cash. 8 months later you have 2 of each 4* maxed out and some troops. Not maxed, because your Stronghold is barely level 20 and you also haven’t gathered that many troops (you also invested in your 4*s cause you of course want to compete of Advanced too, more ladders=more fun). You go into the event and you can’t break top 50 after all this work. You’re left with 0 worthwhile loot, because guys in the top 50 have troops quite as good as you do, 3 heroes of the necessary color, and all of them equipped with well-leveled troops.

You’ve spent 8 months (that’s a lot of time to play a game for most people as is, so you’re a quite dedicated player) paying and working hard at getting your team event-ready. And even then, you realize you’re just behind the curve and can’t reach the place that matters.

It seems awfully discouraging and anti-fun to me.

Now imagine there’s a point threshold. You can get the rewards now given to top 50 if you reach a high point threshold. So you pull out all of yo bombs, axes, arrows and fancydotes and you flask till you make it and you reach it. And you can breathe easy, because you’ve got it. Then you see the next threshold and you see you CAN do it, so you flask again, and grind them points and you fail to get there cause your boards sucked. So you start to build an even better team for the next event to counter act the bad luck and put away gems to use the refills, because it’s not about other players having played longer and having more good stuff stashed away, but about YOUR team being simply good enough.

That’s how I see it.