Celebrating 500 days since Hero Academy first teased

Now you really have to give feedback on the proposed adjustment. I would honestly be interested to hear what you say. Thanks

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I’ll see if I get a spare moment to toss my thoughts on it into the ring.

Here’s a little taster…

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Yes that’s why we need your thoughts. I completely forgot about boomer

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Almost stopped believing it would ever happen and now an overhauled version is going to enter beta soon :grimacing: even with the first draft of HA :open_mouth::star_struck:

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It’s only been a few days but Mystery we still miss you here at Beacons lol

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Well, @MysterySpin, I came back and read it. It’s sad; your criticisms of the raid tournaments, alchemy labe, challenge events, emblems, power creep, etc. are all completely valid. They’re fair, well reasoned, and clearly articulated. I applaud you for making a decision with a deadline and sticking to it, rather than moving the goal posts.

As I’ve stated, I would hire you immediately, if I were in charge. Turns out I’m not, but I hope SGG sees your post, takes the time to read it, and takes it seriously.

Just about the only thing I disagree with you on is SGG’s image. I can’t speak for the player base in general, and your thoughts on how their perspective evolved (or possibly failed to), are interesting. But SGG’s continual refusal to pay for mods, improve beta testing, retain public relations staff, etc. do NOT strike me as the actions of a small, agile, plucky organization. Rather, they’re the hallmarks of a greedy, bloated, nameless, faceless organization.

Like others, I’m curious what game you found.

Be well.

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I have a feeling they either overpromised Zynga how they could manage the game with their current staff or that they have some possiveness about the game and loathe to include anyone else (financially for some reason other than salary) The profits on this game are off the charts and paying a few people 200-300k is just a part of a drop in the bucket for them.

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Sounds like everything is working out wonderfully for the company then. Why change what ain’t broke?

U mean x mas next year lol

Sorry this statement just had me flashing back to the mid-2000’s when people would ask whether bundling mortgages people could repay into bigger and bigger bundles to sell on was an economically sound idea.

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Thanks dude, have been missing you guys too… I’m a couple days away from having played a month in the new game and so will be popping back into the Discord server in the next couple days to give a brief update and let people know what I’ve been playing. Didn’t want to say immediately as firstly I wanted to make sure I was going to be sticking to it for the long term rather than a different game and also so I could suss out any potential teething issues – a good thing that I did as turns out due to the size of their player base they have split the player base across multiple servers which it turns out means players on different servers can’t be in the same clan (however as the server you are assigned is determined by your device’s location when you install it you can temporarily use a VPN to a specific server – or failing that you can request the company moves your account to another server but I’m guessing that is a bigger PIA).

However I’ve not been missing E&P this past week and a bit. If I had had any doubts and changed my mind I believe Sunday would have been the last day I could have re-installed to still get far enough along the Path of Valor to reach that Tonic my hoarde of greenies had been craving but come Sunday didn’t have any doubts… Indeed was spending a little bit more of the budget I would have been putting towards trying for Clarissa to get some guaranteed perks…

Thanks, the key I’ve found to quitting a particular game is definitely finding a different one to replace it with. I mean it has become a bit of a running joke the number of people who make a rage quit post and then come crawling back (and by typing this now I have made it just that bit harder for my ego to ever consider returning in the future) with their tail between their legs. It’s all down to the fact that when the finger inevitably itches to play something and they’ve not found something to fill that urge it winds up falling back on the previous habit of choice.

So if at any point people are considering quitting any game I would advise you look around at other games first to find your next fix (or if your whole alliance is getting fed up each look around together to find a game you all want to go to instead). I can say from my experience looking around I found at least 2 other match-3 games (to those about to get snooty and say ‘copycats’ go back to my OP and watch the video of SGG CEO talk about how E&P was heavily inspired by the top 50 games at the time they needed a hit before posting) I found that I thought had better mechanics in them. One of them was easy to find but it was one of the few games where I had an issue with the art style (it is unusual for me to care about looks of a game, I mean I’ve never given much of a toss about any of the looks of heroes in this game at all but for me it just seemed a bit too toony for me – and I say that as someone who ranks Jet Set Radio (or Jet Grind Radio) amongst my all time favourite games).

The other one was rather difficult to find in the app store (and for those really bothered by artwork was at total opposite end of the realism art spectrum) that seemed to have even greater depth than E&P and solve a number of issue I did find that after roughly 2 years of match-3 game playing that really I wanted something differently entirely.

So the game I’m currently in is quite a leap away from E&P and other match-3 games entirely and if I’m totally honest has some ulterior motives to the decision as well for I will say that some of the most fun I’ve had with E&P hasn’t actually been the game play but deconstructing the mechanics of it, discussing those mechanics and coming up with ideas for it like when I proposed my left-field ideas for the Hero Academy. So I’ve decided I’m going to take a crack at trying to program a couple of games for my own shots-and-giggles [sic]. The reason for there being two is that really the original idea was to make a fan game based on something within a game I used to play when growing up (partly because some of the art resources from it are now on the web) but in the event there’s an issue with it much of that game can be repurposed into a totally different idea (it is kind of embarrassing to say though that the main issues for that second one is artwork given that before I transitioned into software I was a graphic designer for a newspaper company – you’d think that I’d be good at drawing but nope I suck best way to explain that mystery is to think of an interior designer, they may be able to arrange your furniture to look nice but they didn’t create the sofa, I was good at arranging and touching up other people’s artwork presentationally but could illustrate to save my life) and so the game I’ve gone to play now has some similar mechanics to ideas I’ve had for those projects so I started playing them to see how something similar (but different) seemed to play out.

So whilst I don’t expect anyone would hire me for anything (I fully expect they’ll both be total rubbish as will be experimenting a lot and as I say artwork is non-existent) I will at least be entertaining myself playing around with some of the ideas.

Disclaimer: The following drop down section will contain comments political and economic in nature some people may disagree with. Naturally you’re perfectly within your rights to disagree with them just as much as I have the right to say them. However as I have left the game and am not seeking your vote in any elections now or in the future I have about as much interest in arguing about them as the wall you have in front of you and as such if you are easily triggered by comments of a political or economic nature you disagree with you may wish to skip this bit entirely if you wish to avoid having the internet equivalent of arguing with a brick wall in public.

I think it is important to draw a distinction between people’s perspectives and reality in the same way there is between a map and reality. No map can ever perfectly represent reality, if you attempted to create the most accurate map ever won’t capture information such as how many blades of grass in a particular area or how that grass feels. But that’s OK we don’t create maps to capture everything, just to retain enough information for whatever we need it for but we need to remember it is missing some information.

Now if say we need to create a map of a larger area on the same sized page we have to start chopping out more of the least important details to fit the map in. And as we go on zooming out trying to chart larger and larger areas we lose more and more details.

Now in terms of perspectives and reality when people start out in a particular area it is like they are sketching their mental map at maximum zoom out where very few details can be retained but at this stage people don’t know what the most important details are so they import their own mental heuristics or “rules of thumb” and mental stereotypes into the initial mental map. Then after having learnt a little bit more they’re able to refine the map a little bit with a bit more details to the point where their understanding of something seems to work for them the majority of the time such that they think they know something well enough. Now unless a person is able to accept that their understanding of things can be flawed (whether through lack of detail or that assumptions under which they based their understanding has since changed) they run the risk of becoming a walking example of “a little bit of knowledge being a dangerous thing,” as they find themselves at the over-confident idiot end of the Dunning-Kruger effect.

As we learn more we are able to fill in more details and make corrections to our mental maps to greater and greater degrees but even when we approach the point of being an expert in a very specific area (like having a really detailed zoomed in map) by this point we are aware that whilst we know much that works most of the time we are now also aware of how much detail in that area eludes us as we’re just unable to retain it such that whilst we have a good idea of what the answer to an issue probably is we do also know that something in those details that eludes us might possibly mean it is wrong so we present it with less confidence and thus winding up at the uncertain expert end of Dunning Kruger.

But anyway we’ve taken a long time to get to this point but when I spoke of the image of SG that has persisted for far too long in the forum I speak of an early low-detail (and therefore inaccurate) mental representation of SG that has been able to survive passing as an idea from person to person (I hesitate to use the word meme here as internet imagery has somewhat morphed the original meaning of the word but it would be appropriate to consider it memetic spread) without being updated.

Now with regards to what you say on SG I would agree that this is a more accurate representation of SG. Unfortunately it is not the dominant perspective held on the forum and has an uphill struggle to become so as many that have come to view this as so can’t be bothered with the hassle of arguing this point against the majority and secondly SG has a vested interest to maintain the more complimentary ‘plucky start up struggling to get by,’ image than the alternative that a few dropped comments on the ‘small team’ sizes in the odd AMA can help reinforce the less accurate perspective.

So whilst I agree this is a more accurate reflection of SGG (even if not held by the majority) did I not come straight out with the same point. Well 2 reasons. Firstly whilst I would say the accusations are accurate on a company level which would have been fine for what we were discussing it also is missing details in that really it is that those in charge of the financial decisions for the company are steering the company in that direction whilst other employees with less influence may not necessarily agree (just to go back to the newspaper company I was a graphic designer for – the company was run by some rather terribly selfish people who seemed intent in driving the company into a brick wall at speed yet most of the people I encountered and worked around were nothing like this and were not working there to advance that <> agenda). And so to sidestep a totally irrelevant and besides the point argument with anyone who may have misinterpreted something meant to describe something at a company level as being an accusation to all employees I have avoided it as that was not the intent.

And secondly as I say when people start forming these mental perspectives and bring their heuristics to their early models these are greatly influenced by the culture that they’re in. If we were discussing this in a debating chamber in my country I’d have little hesitation making the same accusation however here on the internet it is inevitable that somebody living in a jurisdiction in which things like consumer rights, labour laws and company practices resemble something more from the Ferengi Rules of Acquisition than sanity means that to them all of these things seems standard business practices who would beg to disagree.

But as this disagreement would be purely a political matter and this is the internet it would have prompted a “debate” in which I’ll roughly summarize the highlights that naturally I would have been otherwise going into excruciating detail on: “Just because it is normal where you are doesn’t mean it is elsewhere”; “What you may be calling capitalism the father of modern economics Adam Smith would be calling broken markets as any company accruing this much power or profit levels in his book was a sign of too little competition in the market”; having to explain the differences between socialism and liberalism to someone that believes that they are one and the same (they are not); then inevitably explaining that neither socialism nor liberalism is what they thought it was; probably then have some baffling exchange in which giving individuals more consumer rights is some-how totalitarian.

Instead however I thought it would probably be better off if I followed a more diplomatic course of action and just omit the point entirely as whilst as I say I would agree with it enough in the context of the discussion to use it if debating it in the same room, on the internet it is heavily loaded and I didn’t need to include it for the point I was pursuing.

With all the above aside I will just pick up on the point raised on beta testing. The issue is not the quality of beta testing – the issue is that it largely seems to be treated as irrelevant. No bigger example of that than the current list of heroes included within the current re-balance list.

Whilst I wasn’t in beta at those points it was well known that by Margaret and Atomos’s release that the feedback of most beta testers on those heroes was that both were underpowered and yet they were released in those states anyway. To ignore the feedback originally then come back about a year later after final accepting those points is not down to beta but SG not really using it properly and is therefore a giant waste of most beta testers time given that they put so much time and effort in trying to help improve the game to most often be ignored.

I’m not sure I’m going to be giving comprehensive hero balancing feedback in the end but as I’ve mentioned these two here I’ll say a few words on each.

Margaret: In the first of the 2 match-3 games I mentioned earlier there was actually a hero that was similar to Margaret in that she was a fast and flimsy dodge buffer that was actually pretty great. Her dodge buff covered the whole team AND she gave everyone a heal over time and the two together worked nicely and the dodge buff made it more likely a low health hero would get healed up over those turns as they had a good chance of missing any attacks aimed at them during the turns they were low on health as they healed. I personally wouldn’t advocate for Margaret to gain a damaging attack but to widen the dodge buff (keep the mana gain if dodged part as her entire skill remains dispellable) and give everyone a Heal over Time as well. Alternatively if keeping it at just Margaret and nearby allies perhaps it could be a large and fast Heal over Time (like 600 health over 2 turns) as like an anti-GM.

Atomos: Tweaking Atomos’s values is not going to change the underlying problems with this hero. He has very little synergy with other heroes as he only helps himself and at slow he does far too little to justify his mana speed. Horghall with the attack down to all does more to help his team mates than Atomos does.

What is strange is that before Atomos even entered Beta there was a version of his card that leaked – as it has been made clear by beta testers at the time this version of Atomos never entered beta that this content was never in beta and therefore was never beta content I’m going to include the image in the following drop down bit to help illustrate the point.

A version of Atomos that was changed before even appearing in beta for first time

(Just cut off at the bottom of screenshot is -75% healing to all enemies.)

Note to mods: Please if removing this image can you leave some text description of the special pictured in the card as that’s the main point.

Now granted this card was rather OP it is unfortunate that in being given the rubbish self-revive at slow Atomos lost so much that had much more synergy with other heroes. Just amongst his Atlantis team mates his Heal Over Time would have been boosted further by Triton’s +Healing Boost.

Personally if I were rebalancing Atomos I would be looking to find a middle ground between the current version and the what I’ll call Alpha version but now we have some new mechanics we can twist things a bit:

Atomos I would recommend:

Mana Speed: Slow

Reduces Max Health of all enemies by 200.

The more mana the enemies have the more their max health is reduced up to 400.

All allies gain 612 health over 4 turns.

If the caster dies during the next 5 turns they are resurrected with 32% health… yada yada yada.

Essentially this build takes the healing reduction from the alpha build and the amount of damage done varies by hero mana and amalgamates it into a conditional max health reduction ability and adds in an all team heal over time.

Unfortunately with forum rules I’m unable to post the name of the game I’m playing now or the other two match 3 games I mentioned earlier that I tried however if anyone is super curious I’ll be posting about them all in the Beacons Are Lit Discord server in a few days time when I post my update there so people can either find out there or will inevitably hear it through the grape vine – also means anyone looking for a new alliance can kill two birds with one stone by joining to find out the games I’m alluding to and also check out a great alliance to possibly join…

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I once did this thinking Looney Tunes would fill the void. How wrong I was

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You have no idea how close I came to giving that one a go. Think it was 2 or 3 games further down the list to try after the one I settled on.

The interesting thing I found was that I was expecting one of the other match 3 games to be what I would go with but didn’t realise at the time needed something different. Had I not been looking outside my expected zone for “research purposes” might not have wound up where I did.

Out of interest what didn’t take your fancy with the loonies if that is not a totally rule breaking question?

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In short:

  • No sense of alliance / chat
  • Less ‘strategy’ (of course not to say E&P has boatloads of strategy)
  • Interesting heroes but not of the same diversity as E & P
  • Grind gave little satisfaction
  • Longer load times

But I did like some of the gameplay and mechanics

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Complacency can go hand in hand with failure and decline. When companies move away from to QOL improvements to only focus on the $ it can end poorly/impact longevity.

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Do any of these games have a modding community?

Back in the PC days, and later the PalmPilot days, I loved loading my video games with mods.

I still have not found an iOS mobile game with a vibrant mod community.

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Done modding in the past and is not what I’m looking to try do here. Am wanting to experiement with various core game design idea rather than make tweaks to existing ones. The fan game one is based on is attempting to turn a side-game within an old console game into a standalone mobile game and the other one is totally my own ideas (will probably turn out completely off the wall) that is a little experiment in designing an accessible but deep mobile game that doesn’t rely on loot boxes or pay per pull summon mechanics. As I say due to my lack of art skills the second one I’d probably never release (granted I could try find some artist on Fiver or whatever but it would then be on-going support that would be the issue) but I’m just doing that for my own personal amusement and learning. The first could potentially be dropped into the fan community for the game it was based on permissions permitting.

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I hope to read you again. :eyes:
Lately, farewells have become fashionable in the forum and much more in the game.
Great job from SG.

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Are you MysterySpin on reddit?

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I would have to use the past tense and say that I was. Haven’t logged into Reddit since I stopped organising twice weekly public Pokémon Go raid gatherings which was around the time Niantic decided to bring their exclusive moves to legendaries.

I would reckon that if you find a MysterySpin on a website or game anywhere it is typically me as I’ve used the name in plenty of places (naturally just the username being reused and not passwords).

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