🕵 Captain Nemo – S4 Hero – 5* Fire/ Red: Thoughts, Discussion & Summon Results with Feedback

Wow. That‘s impressive. Thanks for sharing.

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Wow, talk about a beast! :rofl:

According to the damage formula presented on the forum:

[995*6/(961*5)]^1.35≈1.34

So he should be dealing 34% more damage than Gefjon (who has the potential to steal minions, though).

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Thx for creating this topic @Ruskin505

I just wanted to add it, but I have noticed that you have already done it.

If you want to have the exact same formatting, then go to a topic (eg: Garjammal for Season 4) and click on the Reply at the bottom, and click on this icon.
kép

This will quote the whole text formatting, which you unqoute and edit, and you can use it to create a new topic.

You can also copy the polls too if you reply to that post, and click on the same icon.

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I didn’t know that existed. Great information once again!

I just did a regular copy and paste for most of it and changed a few things because I prefer it that way.

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I think that this format is good :slight_smile:
Every important format is there, and the rest is hidden :slight_smile:

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Good share
BUT…
Gefjon is NOT conditional at all. She simply deals 500% damage every time (unless AD)
+
Stealing minions before dealing damage is an additional benefit she brings to the play.

Comparitively Nemo is 300% & TOTALLY conditional for his 600% damage. Yes, agree, that condition isn’t too difficult to achieve, becoz, the game is loaded with heroes that hit & give some ailment.
Also, many champ ailment giving healers would be now suicidal facing Nemo !

It would be interesting to tryout Nemo with Killhare, who gives ailment to own team. Though post Killhare firing, Nemo’s 600% might be an overkill :rofl:

Got Nemo earlier today, still need 2 rings, so have time to try him out at 3/70 a bit on some good bosses to see how he does
&
It would be interesting to see him tango with Gefjon !

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It’s true that Gefjon steals minions every time, but only if there are minions to steal. Therefore, if there are no minions to steal, she steals no minions. If we look at Gefjon from the perspective of her having the possibility of doing “extra damage” via stealing minions, she only deals this extra damage if there are minions. So if there are three minions with each 200 HP, she deals 600 “extra damage”, 600 more damage than if she targeted an enemy with the same defense with no minions. If there’s one minion with one HP, she will deal one extra damage (and “damage” herself if she already has three minions with more health than that, I believe).

If you look at a hero like Grimble, he deals very little damage in the absense of minions, but against a minion-heavy team, he has the potential to deals massive “damage”, if there are minions present. And he gives mana to the team for each minion removed. But in the absence of minions (even if there are minion makers present), he does very little.

But if we look at Aouda instead, she deals “extra damage IF the target has boosted health.” That is conditional. If there is no boosted health, no extra damage is dealt. While Gefjon’s special does not contain the word “if”, you could read her special as, “IF the target has minions, steals those minions.” If there are no minions, no minions are stolen. Minions are not unlike boosted health, although you need to have full HP in order to be able to have boosted health, but minions also cap at three, whereas boosted health at +100%.

Sure, if you still don’t like the use of the word “conditional” in the context of trying to draw a comparison between Gefjon and Nemo, then we can fall back on the word “situational” instead. To sum up my point one more time: Gefjon stealing minions is not conditional in the sense that she will steal them every time if they exist (except from heroes like Telluria, I believe), but from the point of view of viewing that as extra damage for trying to evaluate her maximum damage potential, it is in fact consitional, conditional on there being minions present, just like boosted health in the case of Aouda.

To get back to Nemo, he’d be broke if he did 600% every time. While Gefjon is a gun that you simply aim and shoot, Nemo you don’t bring into every fight (if you have a roster deep enough to have options), and in battle you have to weigh whether it’s better to do the 300% now or wait a turn or two for Bera to go off.

As someone who used to use Kageburado in my mono purple team before I replaced him with costume Sartana, I used to fire Kage when he was ready, not waiting for Panther. Eventually I gravitated towards holding off on Kage (most of the time) until Panther had her special up as well. The result were way better, but that also made Kage effectively fast instead of very fast. Meanwhile it didn’t remove the fact that in the latter half of the match he was often useless, because he simply can’t finish most opponent below 50% unless they are really low (which is when even Panther can typically do the job). That’s why Kage got benched and hasn’t seen use in over a year – however long it’s been since costume Sartana came out.

Is Nemo going to frustrate people like Kage frustrates me? Absolutely. Is his damage ceiling high, though? Absolutely. Against the right team, he’s going to shine. He remind a lot of Finley, another hero that really frustrates me on offense. Like Nemo, he requires you to play from behind, have the enemy fire their specials for him to give the most value. Against the wrong team, he’s pretty lackluster. The defense down does offer at least some utility, though.

If we see more heroes like Killhare, who have powerful specials, but give ailments to the team, Nemo could have more synergies in the future.

Edit:
Actually, if we look at “conditional” from a programming perspective and define it as the special skill having an if statement in it, then we would have the following pseudo-code.

Lianna:
target.HP -= CalculateDamage(caster, target, 5.12);

Gefjon:
if (target.Minions != null &&
target.Passives.MinionRemoval == false)
{
StealMinions(caster, target);
}
target.HP -= CalculateDamage(caster, target, 5);

Aouda:
if (target.HP > target.MaxHPOriginal)
{
target.HP -= 500;
}
target.HP -= CalculateDamage(caster, target, 4.5);

Nemo:
if (caster.Ailments != null)
{
target.HP -= CalculateDamage(caster, target, 6);
}
else
{
target.HP -= CalculateDamage(caster, target, 3);
}

Here, caster and target are objects with multiple properties. The only hero out of these four without an if statement as part of their special is Lianna. The check for the presence of minions in the case of Gefjon isn’t absolutely necessary, but even if she tries to steal minions, you can’t say she stole minions in the case where there were none.

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I’m not impressed with this one. I’ll keep Tyr and Gefjon over him. Having to take an ailment on in order to do real damage is not all that great. Especially with Graz, Vanda and Garnet set up to block them. He’d possibly get rings, but only b/c I don’t have much else in red to level. I rate him a B-

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Combo cMrjana + gefjon is an overkill 100% of the time.

Combo cMarjana + nemo? Only guarantee a kill he has a ailment.

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@Utkuak : You gave a long Gefjon talk for nothing… if you re-read what I have written, you will see that I have simplified things about Gefjon & Nemo instead of unnecessary long writing.

They have made Gefjon 500% damage unconditional & her stealing minions is based on minions being there… else there is nothing to steal.

MOST times I use Gefjon when there is no minion to steal = as a pure sniper !

Nemo’s 300% is unconditional but 600% is conditional
while
Gefjon’s 500% is unconditional !

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I wrote my reply still half-asleep at six in the morning. So don’t worry, I can write way longer. :grin:

Anyway, what you said was:

Either you are contradicting yourself by stating that Gefjon is “NOT conditional at all”, or we could say that Nemo deals at least 300% every time, dealing 600% is just an “additional benefit.”

I refer once more back to Aouda. She deals extra damage if there’s boosted health. Gefjon deals extra damage (via removing/stealing minions) if there are minions present.

In your latter post you did write, however:

Now that statement is phrased in a factually correct way. :clap:t2:

Going back to the first quote, though, if AD refers to attack down, no, Gefjon would still deal 500% damage to the target. The percentage is not affected, the attack stat is. From the caster’s side of the equation, direct damage is a factor of the caster’s attack, the special skill multiplier and any possible bonus damage multiplier or in the case of Aouda a flat number that’s added on top.

Zeline’s 34% attack down reduces direct damage by 43%. Nemo affected by said 34% attack down would still deal 45% more damage with his 600% special than he would with his 300% hit. This would be the equivalent of him hitting for 396% without any modifiers to his attack stat present.

Oh, and Nemo’s 600% hit deals 2.55 times the damage of his weaker hit, not double. Nemo’s 600% strike deals 27% more direct damage than Jabberwock with the same attack stat hitting a single target twice for 300% each.

Interesting stuff.

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I keep seeing Gefjon’s special being referred to as damage vs minions but I look at it very differently. Unless the damage is to health, her special is more like a minion dispeller. Same with Grimble/c.Gormek. You are clearing the board of minions. You’re not dealing any actual damage to their health by doing that (I mean, yes they have a damage portion to their specials too, what I mean is getting rid of the minions isn’t really “damage” per say).

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It’s equivalent to damage, that is, a straightforward damage hero such as Nemo would have to deal x damage to destroy them, therefore Gefjon has had the same effect as if she had done x damage although the mechanism is different.

On a different tack, I’m thinking Nemo ought to team rather well with Elradir, wouldn’t you think? He needs to have the ailment to increase his damage, but he doesn’t need to actually suffer damage from the ailment. (Also, dare one mention Reuben?)

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Imo, for this guy to be (one of) the main protagonist of this season, he should do more. Look at Hannah, Elizabeth, Pro. Liddenbrock, Moreau and even Phileas’ abilities. Auoda even seems more up to par with this season than Nemo. I get that we don’t want too many OP heroes in the game, but that doesn’t mean to intentionally make heroes with super conditional use.

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waste of time intellectualising with you… I would rather play the game & do other fun things… & leave you with your impression of some kinda victory of quoting some numbers…

All details are on the cards & easy to understand language & my comments r above ! :rofl:

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Other than power creep, this Capt may have more use situationally, not mine and I have no desire to try and get him.

Screenshot_20210814-150728_Empires

My best red snapper is tyr, sadly I have to give Nemutt rings but ughhh.

Not a bad hero but definitely on lower tier than cMarj and gefjon.
His best attribute might be his class.

Being a main protagonist doesn’t mean anything. Look at Elena and Richard. They’re main protagonists of every season.

Captain Nemo isn’t necessarily worse than Elizabeth, Phileas, or Hannah. Hard to compare with Prof Lidenbrock.

While he is conditional, it most certainly is not super conditional. Most of the top heroes used on defense (Bera, frigg, morel, elizabeth, etc, etc) all give status ailments. Almost every defense team on leaderboard has at least 2 if not 4 heroes who gives status ailments. That makes the condition easily met as long as you pay a slight bit of attention to timing and offense team composition.

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I really don’t get all the snark for this guy.

High attack stack so likely to be used vs titans

Vast majority of defences include at least one hero that gives ailments of some kind.

If used on defence means if attack him need to be careful about when to fire heroes against him that give ailments. Fits wing position on Def well with the fighter class.

Could synergise well with the under-used Reuben who keeps his received DoT damage to a minimum while he gives a solid hit.

There are lots of uses for the captain, and I’m glad I got him. His place for me will be this:

I use that team against any purple tank, which means ailments from either Bera or one of the myriad of her accompanying heroes who give ailments

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Exactly, I pulled him yesterday and happy to have him. My first and probably last S4 5* so I’ll take it!

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Using Easter heroes who give -def to the team might be an idea so to be ahead in the game and not wait from the opponents…

I’ll test it with killhare (which is medium speed)
and come back…
:crazy_face:

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