Building a nerf and compensation policy

Fair enough. Recommend not holding your breath for an answer :wink:

This has been shared many times over and over, it has also been addressed many many times. Whether there is a place in the terms of service or not.

Just because someone can do something doesn’t mean they should.

This thread is about establishing a compensation policy that is fair if SGG nerfs heroes, not adjusts them. This was defined above.

Why’d you reply to me good sir? I was trying to answer the question presented.

Zynga’s terms of service means nothing if they’re shut down by violating both Apple and Google’s terms of conditions.

Apple App Store Terms & Conditions:

Apps that attempt to scam users will be removed from the App Store. This includes apps that attempt to trick users into purchasing a subscription under false pretenses or engage in bait-and-switch and scam practices will be removed from the App Store and you may be removed from the Apple Developer Program.

Google Play Store Terms & Conditions:

You may remove Your Products from future distribution via Google Play at any time, but You agree to comply with this Agreement and the Payment Processor’s Payment Account terms of service for any Products distributed via Google Play prior to removal including, but not limited to, refund requirements. Removing Your Products from future distribution via Google Play does not [a] affect the rights of users who have previously purchased or downloaded Your Products; [b] remove Your Products from Devices or from any part of Google Play where previously purchased or downloaded applications are stored on behalf of users; [c] change Your obligation to deliver or support Products or services that have been previously purchased or downloaded by users.

Zynga can make things right, or lose it all. Their call. And if they get shut down, I hope anyone defending this game doesn’t start demanding a refund of their own.

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If I have duplicates , can I swap my level 1 for a HOTM level 1 of my choice :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

@Cvs @Bloom609

When we make arguments/suggestions, we shouldn’t just shout “nonsense” or “ridiculous” without any valid reasoning to back it up. We should critically view the argument/suggestion and see whether it really is ridiculous, or if it actually makes sense.

First of all, let’s take all of the complaining and crying about Telluria/Vela that caused the nerf.

There are three possible reasons for why one would want a nerf:

  1. “Others have a good hero and I don’t, because I’m f2p or unlucky. Therefore I want to ruin the game for other people and pull them down to my level for my own greedy benefit.”

Do you think this is a valid reason to nerf Telluria? I don’t. And I hope you don’t either.

  1. “Telluria/Vela/GM combo is too prevalent amongst top raiders/alliances, thereby drastically reducing variety at the top levels, making many seasoned players lose interest in the game.”

This is a much more valid argument than the first one, because it is not dependent on a single person’s greedy and entitled needs, but based on an objective observation that many players might leave from boredom.

  1. “Telluria/Vela/GM combo is objectively overpowered based on their winrate compared to any other combination before it, and therefore it should be balanced.”

This is also a completely valid argument, if it was true. But most people are arguing this by their feelings, without actual objective data and evidence to back it up. But let’s put that aside for now, and assume that this argument is valid.

So in terms of reasons to nerf Telluria/Vela, we have 2 valid reasons, 2&3.

Now, let’s look at who are the winners and who are the losers in this situation:

  1. Those who do not own Telluria/Vela are the obvious winners.
  2. Those who own Telluria/Vela are the obvious losers in this situation.

So while the reasons for a Telluria nerf can potentially be valid, it isn’t fair, because there are obvious winners, but also obvious losers.

Now, let’s look at a proposal where Telluria/Vela owners are allowed to trade in their Telluria/Vela for any other hero in the game.

This proposal may sound preposterous to you on instinct, but it only makes sense.

Reasons:

  1. Right now, Telluria/Vela owners clearly lost out. This isn’t about “investment” or “legalities”. It’s about keeping the game fair for everyone. Why should you (generic you, not you specifically) gain at the expense of other players?

  2. Therefore, it is only fair (again, not about legalities) that they gain some form of compensation in order to ensure fairness for everyone.

  3. If we were to take the reasons for nerfing Telluria/Vela to be valid, then the necessary implication is that Telluria/Vela are by far the best heroes in the game, so much so that it’s breaking balance.

  4. If the above is true, then it’s only fair that Telluria/Vela owners are allowed to trade in their now worthless heroes into the previous no.1 and no.2 heroes.

The above is only logical.

Now, let’s review the consequences of such a proposal:

  1. In regards to the valid reasons for nerfing Telluria (i.e not reason no.1), both problems are solved; because Telluria/Vela are essentially removed from top level play, the previous variety is restored in the game. And the OP, unbalanced combination is also removed from play. The purpose of the nerf is completely achieved.

  2. Therefore those who have valid reasons to want a nerf are winners; they obtained what they want.

  3. The only affect that this proposal would have is to mitigate losses for telluria/vela owners; They now have weaker heroes, but still the top 2 heroes in game, like they had before. This is completely fair.


When we critically look at the proposals and the arguments around them, we see that this proposal has no losers. There is literally not a valid reason to reject it. The only reason would be in the case of reason number 1 for nerfing Telluria/vela; f2p players are red-eyed at other players’ good heroes and want to pull them down so they don’t ahve to put in the effort and money. This is clearly a ridiculously selfish and invalid attitude.

Therefore with this proposal, it restores fairness and balance, while benefitting all parties.

Can you come up with a counter-argument for why this proposal is unfair to any group of players, other than an instinctive “no, that can’t happen” response?

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I think the majority is fine with rebalancing. We’re just asking for compensation.

The obvious answer is troops, food, and iron. Do you assume everyone has maxed troops and doesnt spend gems on food or iron? Everyone is free to play the way they feel is best for them. Don’t pretend you know what people spend gems kn

The argument is and always will be that spending your money in this game is a choice. No one forced you to spend to get Tell or Vela or Gravemaker, it was your choice. You can be ftp just like thousands of others. It’s a game of chance and nothing is guaranteed. If SG begins compensating for every time someone stomps their feet and threatens to leave, then this forum would be nothing but toddler tantrums ad nauseam, which is kind of what it’s been lately.

Do I think that the Tell/Vela combo is overpowering? Yes I do. Do I think that there should be an adjustment? Yes I do. I spent the money to get Tell, my choice. I reset my emblems and used all those resources to set Tell as my tank. Again, my choice. Do I think I should be compensated now that there is going to be an adjustment? No I don’t. When I downloaded this game, I agreed to TOS. While a generous compensation would be a lovely gesture, it’s not mandated or expected. I agreed to the fact that heroes and gameplay can change at any time. I agreed that I don’t own my account, no matter how much I’ve spent. Demanding compensation is just silly when you know that the TOS specifically states that everything in this game is subject to change.

But it was a good try…

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Troops, okay sure, food and iron is a stretch.

Well when you put it that way, what kind of things do you like? I have a bridge for sale in new york

Absolutely incredible 10/10 breakdown, at this point if people disagree I’m at a loss, incredibly well said man!!!

I like long walks on the beach, sunsets and a good mojito. :joy::joy:

You clearly did not read the post, because your argument has already been completely destroyed. I specifically pointed out that it isn’t about legalities or “investment” but about fairness.

If people think Telluria needs to be nerfed for fair gaming, then people who has Telluria should be compensated, for fair gaming.

Your entire argument can be summarized in a couple of words: “SG can do whatever they want, its their game.”

This argument can be generically used in any situation, including for why Telluria shouldn’t be nerfed. You were the one who decided to be f2p or not to chase Telluria, that’s completely your decision. You don’t get to cry about Telluria afterwards. In fact, this argument is way stronger.

You need to point out EXACTLY what’s wrong with compensation, who is harmed and what is unfair about it. Your argument is a complete red herring and has absolutely nothing against my argument and proposal.

Sorry, try again.

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The arguments for “compensation” go wrong because the underlying assumption is still that you have somehow “bought” the hero. Thus all the comparisons with cars and whatever and what would be the case if the vendor calls it back for some reason. But there are no goods sold here, so regulations for “broken/misconfigured/…” products don’t apply.

As with all analogies it is not completely suitable but it comes much closer than all those containing whatever product. So, let’s assume you have seen a trailer for new film and from the scenes presented you think “Wow, this looks great! I have to go to the cinema and watch it as soon as it arrives.” So you do and during the film you find out that those scenes which have interested you in it in the first place aren’t part of the movie but were only used in the trailer. And apart from that, you don’t think the film is great, but you find it quite boring. Would you claim compensation from the production company for that (assuming that you’re not considering claiming compensation from the owner of the cinema who definitely had no say in the making of the movie)?

You have spent money for something you thought would be entertaining and it emerges that your expectations are not met. That’s bad luck but no reason for compensation. It was your risk the moment you decided to take the money out of your pocket.

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Ummm no one ever said life was going to be fair. :woman_shrugging:

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I would want a refund if the trailer had Julia Roberts as lead but she wasn’t in the movie but rosanne was the lead

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That’s not the point. Telluria won’t get deleted, she will not be missing from the game. To stay with the movie example: Julia Roberts might not be visible 80% of the whole film duration, but only 70%. That might be less than you expected but it’s no reason to claim “compensation” just because you thought you’d see her more.

No my analogy is fine , the trailer advertisers that the movie is about a broken community whom played a puzzle game distraught with the beheading of the beloved heroine that is brave, beautiful , courageous, generous , honest and full of integrity - played by Julia roberts . The community then overcome the tyranny of the large corporation in revolt and stand as one !

You go to the movie and sit down and see this broken community , but flip when you see the beloved hero is played by rosanne

Movie remains the same with the same story line but they switched actresses , you could even infer they baited you to watch the movie with the fine damsel of Julia Roberts shown in the trailer playing the beloved heroine

My analogy rather than yours is more appropriate as you are paying for the movie not number of scenes that Julia will be appearing

The only ‘compensation policy’ I would dare to ask for would be to somehow allow player to redistribute the ascension mats and/or emblems in case a nerf is happening. 1 time only, for limited period. Think Telluria sucks after the balance, fine, go ascend your Atomos now and show the world how much you believe in it.

Anything like asking for gems or $$$ is just plain laughable. You don’t like the hero can get nerfed - go play a different game or rethink your spending habits. I prefer a game that is healthy and fair. Good rosters with variety of choices will not suffer because one hero is weakened a bit. Those with single golden goose will cry the most. If you focus all your spending into a single month because you knew a hero is OP and wanted 7 copies of it, then I’d say it’s your problem. Heroes and weapons and drops get nerfed and buffed all over video games all the time and crying over it deserving money back is superchildish. If you didn’t expect this, then it’s on you - this was happening in this very game even 3 years ago. Everyone knew this was plain broken and at risk of being addressed by the game designers.

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