Buff specials when blinded


#1

Hey everyone,

I think there is a bit of an inconsistency in the buff specials when heroes are blinded.

As far as I know only the offensive specials get affected (correct me if I’m wrong here, as it would render my point invalid if this is not the case). This means that while for example a blinded Grimm can miss his special and not have the effect active (which he used to, but got taken away in one of the previous updates), a blinded Kasshrek would still give his allies the elemental defense buff. The same goes for healers etc.

I’m a bit torn, as I think blind as an ability is strong enough. I wouldn’t necessarily go and propose that each time you use a blinded healer they have a chance of missing the heal for each hero, but the way it is now also doesn’t really strike me as fair. I think I’d propose the effects to be set back for offensive heroes. If this would nerf the blind heroes too much (could be, I can see people using them in defense might get upset about this) perhaps the decrease of accuracy for normal hits can be increased a bit?

Curious to find out what other people think!

(EDIT: People seem to miss my point here entirely. I don’t propose that healers miss, I don’t propose only a buff for blind heroes. I propose that offensive heroes have their special status effects hit even if they miss the special. As compensation for this change in mechanics, I propose a buff to increase the loss of accuracy on blinding heroes.)


#2

Nice to see others bring this up to. Had a post where i had someting nearly simelar. And had asked the support team about wu kongs skill to find out about him.

I fully support that an defensiv skill need to have a miss chance aswel as an offensiv.


#3

Haha, also suggested Blind should affect defensive stuff like dispell and self-buffs.

Got shot down big time because “Rigard missing a dispell isnt realistic!”

In essense, I support the idea!


#4

I don’t like the idea you could miss heals or friendly dispels. You should be able to for example dispel the blind with 100% chance.


#5

Not liking something isn’t really answering the question whether it is fair/balanced/makes sense though, right? :slight_smile: I don’t like not having my offensive debuff when I miss my special.

I agree with you though, I also wouldn’t like to miss a heal or miss a dispell. That is why I suggested the other solution which even included a little buff for blinding heroes as compensation.


#6

The thought has been discussed elsewhere. I think it’s a very bad idea to give blind this effect against defensive spells, and it’s not very logical either. We already have silence, which obviously should affect everything.


#7

I’ll happily be linked to that topic, couldn’t find it in a quick search. If it is exactly the same then any mod should feel free to merge it if they happen to read this :slight_smile: I don’t think I’ve ever heard the suggestion I made to solve this, so I think it is a new topic - but happy to be proven wrong here!

Just for good measure though: I don’t propose blind hitting the defensive spells (although I don’t agree with that it is not very logical - if you’d be blinded you’d hardly be able to see who you should heal/buff right? :wink: )

I do propose, however, that offense and defense buffs are treated equally. So if the defense buff stays (in favour!) then I think it is only fair that the offensive debuff comes back (in favour!).

As I can understand that people who use blind would not be happy with this (makes them more vulnerable, cause hey, people have effects against them on offense) - I proposed that the loss of accuracy they create with their special is increased. This way the normal attacks won’t hit them as much (and the damage of specials, I guess).


#8

I started this post, cause there are some heroes that have a 2nd same effect on the skill, but some comes after healing og just insta and some need to hit an atk and have a miss chance. (Vivica and magni, sabina and caedmon, Elena and Boil just some of them)


#9

Thanks bud! I’ll read through that as Well then! :slight_smile:

Edit: read through and dont really see Any arguments there against this other than “other games dont do it” and “but it would be weird if my healer would miss” (I’m gonna go ahead and skip the roleplay part). As i adressed these points already in my original post and proposed a fix to keep that AND make things more fair, I believe this post serves its own purpose :slight_smile:


#11

Only valid arguement is… the rock paper scissors battle, another words counters.
To counter blind, bring someone to take away debuffs. I think blind should only effect offensive spells with this thought in mind. You are losing someone with a potentially better skill than “heal and debuff”.


#12

I personally think that both the heal and dispell should be able to fail when the caster is blinded.

Why not? Its a spell like any other, with an effect like any other?

Right now Rigard/Vivica are both the game equivilant of “get out of jail”-free cards.


#13

Hey tuna,

I don’t fully understand your point. I know how to counter blind (I too use Rigard), I just think it is not consistent in its use.

Because I don’t understand who am I losing I figured I’d answer two possible answers you might mean:

  • a: A hero that can blind? To prevent them from being less useful I suggested they get boosted in their blinding ability for normal tiles and the damage part of the specials. I personally think that is a fair trade.
  • b: A hero that can take away debuffs? With all the other effects still around, I very much doubt this is the point you’re making. Rigard/Vivica/Locke etc are still very solid against burn/poison/defense debuff/offense debuff… and they would still cure blind in my suggestion :slight_smile:

#14

The effect says “They are less acurate” This accuracy is more an offensive thing. Harder to hit your opponent. I don’t think accuracy should affect friendly actions as no one would really want to try to dodge your heal or dispel anyway, would they?

Totally realistic that you can dispel and heal with 100% chance even if Joons solar beam has blinded you a bit. Think of it as a healing wave thing, or aura.

I think blind is still pretty strong effect and the blinding heroes don’t need a buff just because heals and dispels can’t miss. They have never had a chance to miss, this is not something new. It has been that way for 7 months. Why should they suddenly need a buff because of it?


#15

Would appreciate the exact number shown myself - believe if you hold on the hero that is blinded you can see it though (believe it is between 21% on map and 34% on raids, but not sure on this).

I think blind is very much a strong effect and should in no means get a buff the way it is now.

I propose that offensive debuffs also become active when blinded and when heroes miss their specials (think of grimms’ defense debuff as a distractive cloud that distracts them enough to lower defense even if he misses).

Because this would inevitably make blinding heroes less strong, i proposed the buff. This is not suddenly, but as a compensation.


#16

It is just as “realistic” to look at the blind effect as something that effects the output of an action performed by the blinded target.

If Sabinas offensive disspell can miss due to blind, then why cant Rigards defensive disspell miss if blinded?

Sure you can imagine it as a passive heal aura, but you can also imagine it as a distinct action performed by someone suceptible by debiliting effect.

But mostly I agree with @loorts that it should be consistent.
Either

  • Offensive specials affected by blind always apply their respective effects

Or

  • Defensive specials affected by blind has a chance of missing

My two cents


#17

Then they would need to take the accuracy penalty down a lot. You need to compare blind to other effects, like lowered attack. It only lowers the damage enemies do. All extra effects like silence, blind, mana stop, etc. from the weakened caster still apply for full, as do healing.

Blind will reduce damage by the accuracy penalty amount say X, because X% of the attacks miss. But it also reduces the effect of all specials. There is an X% chance for the target to miss and not apply a penalty at all. If they would extend the blind to apply to defensive spells too, then it would be way too overpowered.


#18

I hear what you say, but dont agree.

Since misses generate mana for you while not generating mana for your opponent.

I agree that Blind is strong, but is it overpowered? I dont think so.

Where as the “always-whipe-all-debuffs-and-heal-a-crapload”-tank that is Rigard, could be considered overpowered.
(And yes, I also have him, so it isnt a question lf that)


#19

Every single game that has a blinding mechanic only applies the blinding debuff to offensive actions. Same thing goes with chance to hit. Friendly spells are always accurate since friendly targets want you to heal them or remove debuffs. Your foes will not do such therefore you suffer a penalty. They removed the offensive bonuses on misses when they also removed it being a flat hit or miss chance on aoe and made it target specific.


#20

The “every one else does this” argument doesnt hold up.

And we can debate the “realism” of magic spells in absurum, and still not agree.

But the core issue remains. Consistency.


#21

Misses due to blindness no longer generate mana. I believe this was changed in 1.7