Buff JF elemental defense

Here is a Richard tank I found. I got a screenshot of Richard firing while I have JF 94% ice defense, I fled and came back and got a screenshot of his damage without 94% ice defense. Seriously this does not look like 94% ice defense. It doesn’t even cut the damage in half.

The problem is how the damage is calculated. It might seem that +94% defense increase would have bigger impact. And it might have, but only in some specific situations.

Look at the damage calculation formula:

If we simplify it by assuming θ = 1 (as it most often is close to 1) and we will assume attacker’s attack being the same as defender’s defense you can expect ± this damage to be done:

Attacker’s special Attack modifier Defense modifier damage
Alasie +462% damage 0% 0% 100 * 4,62^1.35 = 790
Alasie +462% damage 0% +94% 100 * (4,62/1.94)^1.35 = 323
Alasie +462% damage -34% 0% 100 * (4,62*0.66)^1.35 = 450
Alasie +462% damage -54% 0% 100 * (4,62*0.46)^1.35 = 277

Let’s check how it works with specials that have much lower % damage (as mentioned GM):

Attacker’s special Attack modifier Defense modifier damage
Gravemaker +135% damage 0% 0% 100 * 1.35^1.35 = 150
Gravemaker +135% damage 0% +94% 100 * (1.35/1.94)^1.35 = 61
Gravemaker +135% damage -34% 0% 100 * (1.35*0.66)^1.35 = 85
Gravemaker +135% damage -54% 0% 100 * (1.35*0.46)^1.35 = 52
  • It’s still important to note that above damage is working with same attack as defense. If attack was ± 15% higher damage than defense then the damage would be about +20% more
  • Even if I was working with θ = 1, it won’t be that way in “real life”, so damage will be ±15% of what I calculated

Decreasing single target special skill is harder, because it has high base %. On other hand, decreasing AoE effects is much easier. Attack modifier is much stronger than defense one - that’s the reason why attack is most often -34% and defense +60% (or higher)

I am not saying that JF’s ice defense is bugged or not, but it doesn’t seem to be that off (given the damage calculations)

As @SWEG already posted two more pictures of Alasie’s damage, it’s important to note that:

  • on first one the target has some -def debuff (which was applied before JF)
  • on second one the attacker has +attack buff from Zimkitha (probably)

What are your thoughts on the Richard pics? He goes from 710 damage to his main target, to 478 if that target has 94% ice defense. That’s only saving 232 points of damage. Saving 232 points of damage from a 710 hit does not seem like JF is preventing 94% of the damage…

Look at the formulas above.

94% defense is not supposed to stop 94% damage.

That’s not how defense in this game works.

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would take a regular defense buff stacking with the elemental defense to make a bigger dent in the damage

which regular defense buffs trump elementals in the damage calcs anyways from my understanding due to how the elemental buffs/debuffs are calc’d after the regular att/def calcs

basically if you fire before kunch and get both buffs then you’ll see that difference in damage that you’re hunting for(I think, but I really don’t know how high your expectations really are)

The damage calculation is Attack / Defense

So if Attack and Defense are close it’s 1/1.

If you increase Defense by 94% it becomes (more or less) 1/2.

The actual reduction in damage is more like 50%.

If Attack is higher than Defense then it’s even less. And remember defender gets a 20% bonus.

If apply the Damage Calculation formula to those practical value, the Elemental Def Buff will be around 34% only.

I notice the same issue of Kingston, he can debuff up to 51% attack, which expect the damage output to be reduced to 38% but the fact is output damage > 50%.

last I checked, elemental buffs/debuffs weren’t direct increase/decreases like regular buffs are. they worked as an exponent outside the parenthesis of the att/def calcs(been a long time since I revisited that thread fwiw as I do think it dives a bit beyond “need to know” info and really just adds to discussions such as these)

unless I just spaced the entire thread and am now just pullin :poop: out of thin air

Now that you mention it …

I do kinda recall that, I’d forgotten the difference.

Time to do some studying (AGAIN!).

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goes back to:

increasing/decreasing regular att/def then throwin the elemental on top of it has much bigger effect than just the elemental alone

similar to increasing base stats with emblems then amping with troops

That’s some lucky RNG.

@SWEG: See PM. :wink:


Are we stayin or are we goin?

Staying. Just cleaning up the broken zipper. :+1:


I just raided a team that had Alasie and Lianna wings, I had JF 94% ice defense active and Alasie hit my guy for 769 the same turn that Lianna got my guy for 782 :sweat:
There’s a problem with how JF ice defense works…

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