Broken damage calculations

Just finished a raid battle. Opponent’s Thorne had Wu Kong buff up, nothing else. He hit my Seshat for 1072 damage with an auto-attack, not a special. One thousand and seventy-two. Seshat did not have any debuffs up.

When his special hit Santa a couple turns later, still with Wu Kong up, it only hit for 9xx. And that’s a Blue on Red special.

Could the difference be because of Santa’s much higher defence? Santa’s defence is 830, while Seshat’s is 683.

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Blue on red doesn’t mean anything for specials. No colour boost.

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My Santa is at 866 and Seshat at 701 both +7. No, that difference does not account for a normal attack dealing more damage than a special with the same buffs/debuffs.

Yep I had that backwards. Thorne’s normal attack on Seshat had no elemental boost and was not a factor in such a ridiculous number.

Slash attacks can also Crit — and Special Skills can’t. There’s a decent chance that may have been part of it.

It would help a lot if you can post the stats for the Opponent’s Thorne, and the Troop on him, as well as your Seshat’s Troop stats. We can figure out the damage formula calculation based on that.

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Thorne+4 653/793/1375 with a Lvl 8 crit troop 15/18/5/9. Wu buff active.
Seshat+5 790/701/1345 with a Lvl 6 mana troop 19/12/13/7.

I have never seen an auto (slash) attack hit for 4 figures on a lvl 80 before. Even with a Wu/Ranvir/Tarlak/Miki buff.

There is nothing that I have seen to discern a crit attack from a normal one from an opponent hero, unlike offensive tile hits where it is heavily bolded text.

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So let’s run the numbers:

Attack: 653x1.15x1.2x2.85 = 2570

Defense: 701x1.12 = 785

Damage: 100x(θx2570/785)^1.35 = 495xθ^1.35

θ is a random parameter between exp(-.5)=0.606 and exp(.5)=1.649. Hence the damage can vary from anywhere between 252-974. For critical slash (since Thorne has a crit troop) the damage on Seshat can be anywhere between 504-1948.

Conclusion: You were definitely hit by a critical slash with θ=1.06 (which would be the most expected case as it is near the mean of the bell curve) :slight_smile:

Special Note

This is also a great exercise to show how dangerous and effective the WuKong buff is. If I take out his buff from the entire calculation, then the range of critical damage by Thorne on Seshat would have been 122-472, or in your case with θ=1.06 would have been only 260 (which is usually what we encounter in general).

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Clear and concise analysis.

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I’m assuming the 1.2 in the Attack numbers is the raid bonus that opponents receive?

The theta makes no sense. Why would it have such a huge variation?

That is correct. The defense team gets a hidden 20% attack and defense boost.

I have no idea why they decided to include an RNG in the damage mechanics too, but it is what it is. For more details about the analysis you can read this thread. :slight_smile:

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That…is…just what I needed to kick this addiction. And horrible…Spock does not approve.

Well, for now you can ignore that theta. Even if it was not there your Seshat would have still received 991 damage. Most of the time the theta will just lie around 1. :slight_smile:

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Is it true, that the defense team gets a hidden boost (+20% attack and defense) and it does not appear anywhere?
Thanks for the answer.

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Yup that is true

20…

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Yes, it is true. It does not show up anywhere on the hero card even during the raid, but players have done the calculations many time and found that there is a discrepancy in the damage done on or by the defensive hero and the only way to explain was that the defense team got a 20% hidden attack and defense team. I don’t know if its been officially mentioned anywhere though. Maybe @zephyr1would know the origin. :slight_smile:

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The Attack +20% is very easy to see with defense team DOT attacks ( bypasses Defense stat and no RNG ). The Defense +20% is harder to prove, but there is lots of data.

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Yes, that is a great way to explain the attack part. :slight_smile:

It’s at least 20%. During a 3* tournament awhile ago, both my team and opponent had Melia. With zero buffs and debuffs up, opponent’s Melia did around 200 damage to each of my heroes. When mine fired, it did barely over 100.

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