Blind / miss calculation after summation for multiple heroes – Accuracy Debuff Affects All Heroes of Same Color

I just posted a duplicate of this issue. Sorry about that, but thanks @Revelate for bringing this up. In my opinion it’s flawed. Maybe @kahree is right (although I don’t quite understand the calculation) but I’d like to get it confirmed by the devs.

Great discussion. Thank you, I now know more than I did.

Hi, the blind should be working as intended - when using multiple heroes of the same color, each troop will be blinded if the hero it’s equipped to is blinded.

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The discussion popped up again in a Wu Kong related threat



Following the visual information all tiles inflict “the same” damage.
None of the three tiles is associated with Sonya.
So if one of the other heros is blinded and triggered I will loose Sonyas contribution aswell?

I know that @Petri suggested that everything SHOULD work as intended, but then I think the intention is wrong.

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The attack from all the heroes is summed; the blind calculation happens after the summation and is based on the respective troop chosen (graphical display) which has an associated hero that is blinded.

I’m not a fan of it either frankly but as others have pointed out it does work out to the same thing.

Some of the math happens before (like attack buffs and critical calculation) the summation and some happens after (miss as a result of blind).

The two expressions that kahree presented are the same if both heros do X damage:
Lets say the unblinded hero does 2X.

Blind first then sum:
2X + 0.7*X = 2.7X
Sum first then blind:
(2X + X) * (0.5 + 0.5 * 0.7) = 3X * 0.85 = 2.55
By the second implementation too much of the damage is “blinded” away.

Lets say the blinded hero does 2X
Blind first then sum:
X + 0.7 * 2X = 2.4X
Sum first then blind:
(2X + X) * (0.5 + 0.5 * 0.7) = 3X * 0.85 = 2.55
By the second implementation too little of the damage is “blinded” away.

That leaves me with the conclusion that the “sum first, blind after” approach is unlucky design as it is not consequent. The 2.4 and 2.7 average to 2.55, yes. But the implementation is still not consequent.

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I was in a Raid using (left to right) Belith, Valen, Li Xiu, Triton and Hawkmoon. My opponent had (L-R) Caedmon, Graymane, Gormek, Balthazar, and Bane. Towards the end of the fight, I had Valen and Triton remaining, and my opponent had Bane remaining. Bane used Harmonic Slam on Triton, hit successfully, and applied the accuracy debuff, but Triton still had health remaining.

I attacked Bane with three blue tiles horizontally such that two tiles hit him. One tile hit for damage, and the other tile displayed as a MISS. Since Valen did not have an accuracy debuff on him, both blue tiles should have hit for some damage. Why would an accuracy debuff on one hero affect the accuracy of another same-colored hero?

Tiles do damage based on the combined attacks of all heroes of that color. They don’t pick a single hero to represent, from a damage perspective–which is good. It’s why color stacks hit so hard. But tiles also are affected by the accuracy debuffs on all heroes of that color. So if one hero of a color is accuracy debuffed, all tiles of that color have a chance to miss.

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I think this is related to heroes and troops.

Triron had attached A troops while Valen had attached B troops.

When the 3 blue tiles were matched, 1 B troop and 2 A troops charged forward. That B troop, related to a non debuffed Valen, hit. The other A troops, related to an accuracy debuffed Triton, missed.

Tile damage works different since both troops will use the total damage of their color, which in this case is the sum of Triton + Valen attacks. Yet again, some troops will have a higher attack % than the others so they will deal slight different damage when they move forward

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The visual appearance of which troop is moving forward has nothing to do with how much damage the tile does.

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That’s revealing.

So if a troop who has 15% attack and another same colored with 5% also attack in the same match, both will do similar damage?

I’m definetely going to try this by using a leveled 4* troop and an unleveled 1* troop in the same color stack to see the results.

The 1st tile splits damage between the two enemies. But you can see despite the massive percentage difference in troops, there is a 2 point (less than 1%) damage difference between the two troops that hit only the right hand enemy.

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Thanks for the reply @Garanwyn. I’m still not completely clear on what’s happening though.

Agreed. It makes sense to me that Triton has a troop attached, and Valen has a separate troop attached, so when I send up blue tiles, I picture Triton ordering his troops to attack, and Valen ordering his troops to attack, and they’re both attacking the same target(s). Rather than show numbers for each individual attack, the two attacks are combined into a single number per tile.

Here’s where I get confused. Bane’s text reads, “The target gets -%% accuracy for 4 turns…” So I’m wondering why the accuracy of Valen’s attack is impacted by Triton’s debuff. I’m not arguing that this is how it works, since obviously that’s what’s happening. I think that since that’s the case, the way that accuracy debuffs work should be better explained. Possibly tile damage, too, since the animation is showing troops associated with a particular hero, but the mechanics aren’t quite in sync with that.

How about buffs? Let’s take a team of five Briennes for an example. One fires her special and everyone gets the initial 45% attack buff. An enemy attacks, hits one of the Briennes, and increases her attack buff to 65%. If I attack with green tiles, which attack buff is getting applied, and how? Is the tile dealing 5x damage with a 65% buff, or 4x damage with a 45% buff plus 1x damage with a 65% buff?

Valen’s special is unaffected.

The problem here is that the appearance of tile attacks as having troops doing the attack is really neat, but mechanically, that’s not what they coded up.

Each tile is, as it were, a single unified attack by all attackers of that color, not a set of joint attacks that happen at the same time. It can’t miss in part and hit in part. It all misses or all hits.

The individual buffs apply to the attack stats of the particular buffed heros. So what happens is the combined attack stat of that attack you describe is:

Tile_Attack_Stat = 1.45 * (sum of attack stats of everyone with the 45% buff) + 1.65 * (attack stat of the hero with the 65% buff).

The damage equation then converts that into damage as:

Average tile damage = 33 * (Tile_Attack_Stat/Defense)^1.35

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@Garanwyn, I’ve got one more follow up going back to accuracy. Let’s say I still have Valen and Triton, and my opponent has Bane and Joon. Bane and Joon both fire off their specials, with Bane hitting Valen for -35% accuracy, and Joon hitting Triton for -40% accuracy. If I attack with blue tiles, what is my accuracy going to be?

Good question! I don’t know. I’m not aware of any testing that’s been done on this, and it would require hundreds of tiles to be able to distinguish a few percent of accuracy.

My guess is that the highest debuff applies.

@Petri I know you rarely comment on game mechanics questions. But if you have some insight here, it would be greatly appreciated. If two heroes of the same color are accuracy debuffed, what is the effect on the miss rate of the tiles:

  1. Both debuffs are checked on each tile? (Yikes)
  2. The highest one applies?
  3. The lowest one applies?
  4. Somethig else?
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I would say both. Cause I think the buffs and debuffs is kinda transferred to the troops. So both bebuffs is in play.

Except the troops are really only a metaphor, since the troop action ends at the stats and received healing and mana of the hero.

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Average applies?

Agree, it’s just visual.

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Found this from petri in an old post.

The is a answer from petri, sounds like it can answer the question. Post 17

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