Big issue in wars – 1* Defense Teams (Bad Strategy, see discussion for why this doesn’t work well)

???

To field such cannon fodder isn’t a good strategy. Easy points for rookie members. Nothing more. If all would do this, multiple cleansweeps will happen and the static points for the whole ally would be spread over all. It just seems to be cool and only, if one or two do so…

Is discussed multiple times, too…

4 Likes

Total Points

While it is easy to get confused, because of the number of changes to war, this was never true about weak defenses ( see notes ). But you could entirely REMOVE ALL defense team points from the war until that cheat was patched.

Slaughter

Using weak defense teams always lead to a slaughter by the alliance using strong defense teams.

Lets say alliance Cat is using all strong defense teams. And alliance Mouse is using some, or all, weak defense teams.

The short answer is putting up a single 1* 1.1 Defender lead to insane scores for the Cats because the Cats can ignore the Mouse trap teams/ weak teams entirely. Thus gaining more war energy for attacking the Mouse’s strong defense teams. And gaining more points per war energy against Mouse’s strong teams.

Minimum points and five heroes per defense team reduce the slaughter.

It also adds more fun for Cats, because they do not have to wait for Mouse’s few strong defense teams to revive so they can drive up the score even higher.

Notes

War version 1.0 ( the original )

  • Defeating stronger heroes are worth more points than defeating the weaker ones. A fixed amount of points is distributed between the members of the alliances depending on the strength of each member. The total amount of points for each alliance is the same.
  • You get bonus points for completely defeating an entire enemy team.
    (Alliance Wars Approaching (Details & Information)!)

Screen shot- single hero defense teams

Trap teams- weak defense teams

Working Cheat

An actual cheat - All alliance teammates removing all five heroes so there are zero heroes defending for the whole alliance - was removed:

  • Fixed issues with Alliances removing their defense teams while the war is active.
  • Any players who remove their team will become a spectator and will not receive any rewards
  • If the whole alliance removes their defense teams it will trigger an immediate defeat
    ( 1.10.3/1.10.4 Update & Alliance Wars Status (16 Mar) )

FIN

4 Likes

We recently ran into two alliances using this kind of strategy, we discussed it, and we came up with a conclusion… The 1* defense strategy is just amazing, brilliant, a master piece… as long as your opponents are using it…we actually only had to kill half the teams (the weak ones couldn’t even count as kills). This way resets were much easier and faster than usual. Also all our kills brought us about 20% more points than usual. I ended up with a score of 456 against one of them and an amazing 577 against the second… and I wasn’t alone. most of our core teams scored around 400 points, even the unlucky ones that got bad boards… So, people, please! Keep using the 1* defense strategy! It really works!!!

9 Likes

So the opposing team this morning presented 5 variations of the Aif defense as their low end teams. As a result, their high end teams are worth more points. Points we will never reasonably score. This is straight up cheating. Nothing will be done about it until it becomes so widespread that it starts costing the devs players and money so I am.putting the word out so that everyone can either do this or help complain about it.

Have fun until they fix it.

As you can see from the discussion above, you should welcome the gift of poor strategy from your foe. You will have an easy 5 points towards your war chest.

There was a brief time when the strategy had some merit under very particular circumstances. Suppose I, a sneior player with a very good war defense, started a teaching alliance and had 29 new player with Bane as their top hero. When wars were first released, team scores were calculated solely by HP, so,if my 29 newbies all set out an all 1/1 1* war defense, nearly all the points would be on my team, and given the low war score this hypothetical alliance would have, none of our foes would have the offense to crack my defense.

But the devs saw this issue and implemented a fix: each team is worth 1,500 points, of which 500 are distributed evenly and the remaining 1,000 split by HP. Having that base 500 spread around kills the strategy of use all-Aifes except for the very best teams.

2 Likes

We are presently fielding 26 teams. 1800 at the bottom and 3600 at the top. Our opponent has 26 teams. 750 at the bottom and 4000 at the top. The problem.is that the teams in the middle are worth the same amount of points. The 10 to 15 points per team that should have gone to what are now Aif defense teams a re e sitting on the 4000, 3850, 3650, 3600, and 3600 point teams. Without board clears we could get each of those Aif teams 4 times. That is ten to 15 points PER FLAG that we will now only get PER DEFEAT of an opponent that will take 2 or 3 flags to take down. They have effectively permanently hidden 150 points; or more if we can’t drop the 4000 point team at all.

Beyond that it is against the spirit of the game. And easily fixable.

The points not on the 1* defenses are spread around to all the other teams, not just the top 5 teams.

Here’s how you handle this foe:

  • Round 1: take out the 1* defenses and the easiest of the mid-tier defenses. Your allies with weak benches should be doing the 1* teams, using 3*/2* teams and saving all their better heroes.
  • Round 2: wait until the Round 1 targets respawn. Kill them again.
  • Round 3: wait until the Round 1 target respawn. Kill them again. Do your best to kill everyone; if you can get one reset, kill all the Round 1 targets a fourth time.
5 Likes

That’s actually a more apt description, rather than having players call it cheating. It’s just not good sportsman-like conduct and that makes it less fun for an opponent.

3 Likes

The points are not spread EVENLY among all the other players, the majority of them will be on the high powered teams, unless they have a dumbass who boosts his hp with emblems over getting defense/attack when there is a choice. The middle 3rd may have 1 or 2 extra points assigned to them but 8 to 13 of those points from the Aif teams are on the higher teams. The teams that only get defeated once or not at all because that’s all you can do.

1 Like

The exploit still works if you limit the Aifs to the bottom third of your alliance.

It works very well if you limit the Aifs to the bottom fifth of your alliance.

It is a mathematically noticable exploit and has an easy work around that they already employ on other parts of the game.

Using two flags to take down the highest players on that team should still see a fairly sizable victory for you. Use Kerr’s strategy, they are basically gifting you 5 points towards your chest.

3 Likes

The points available overall are the same whether they use this “exploit” or not. If you can’t take out the top teams you can’t win regardless. If you can, they have made it easier for you because the weaker teams are that much easier to kill using your weakest members/heroes, leaving the rest of your alliance to concentrate on the stronger teams.

4 Likes

Like many people already suggested here, the strongest in your alliance should be dealing with those 4000 teams. Doesn’t matter if you clan has 3500 teams only, just stack a few heroes of the same color and kill those guys. Don’t be afraid of defense numbers.

If a few of your teammates coordinate attacks you can win easily. First person should deal with their tanks, second (and third if the boards were against you) should deal with the leftover heroes.

My clan has stopped looking at numbers in defense teams for a long time now. We used to be afraid of teams with defenses full of maxed 5*. We didn’t even touch those. We lost many wars until we started coordinating attacks, resetting the opponents, getting rid of the strong ones first. We’ve never seen the Aife strategy but if we did, we’d probably reset those guys a few times.

Maybe the idea of wasting flags to kill a tank and getting less points for it doesn’t sound appealing at first but, it’s for the sake of your clan… Just kidding lol, it’s for the sake of filling those war chests faster.

Good luck btw @Talrogsmash Hope your clan wins :slight_smile:

5 Likes

I can give you some insight. In my alliance I have 1 of my alts in it. The alt is a 3000 team unable to last long because of the weakness of the team. So I run a 1* war defense team that looses 23 points. In the last war we had a weak team killed me fast round 1. Because of our strongest teams in the alliance they never reset us. I ended up loosing 3 times, the last 2 was 3200 and up teams. I ended up loosing 69 points but scored 212. We won the war easily. This was the 1st time I tried it.

The joy in forcing a reset is to get extra shots at the guys who have 9 hour plus timers. But now those guys are worth 23 instead of 35, and we dont have the flags to get them anyways because we had to throw everything at a bunch of 3600 plus defense teams.

I see everyone ts looking at it from positions where it doesn’t work telling me not to worry about it and just perfectly color stack and coordinate teams with people who have 14 heroes and live in 9 time zones. What I’m hearing is it’s ok if these guys cheat cuz they will eventually run into teams that it doesnt work on. In the meantime THEY ARE STEALLING RESOURCES FROM TEAMS THAT IT WORKS ON. Not every alliance is just 30 guys with 90 war ready and worthy heroes ready to throw down at a moment’s notice.

There is a solution to this cheat. They already use it in other parts of the game. They just need to apply it to the war point assignment system.

As the other guy said “instead of losing 36 points with a team that has no shot, I lose 23 points instead and let the other guys worry about it”

Bet he wouldn’t feel that way if the system message at war matchmaking said “due to the quality of your roster, you are defending 36 points”

It’s not cheating; it’s a perfectly permissible strategy under the rules. And you either choose to act to counter it appropriately, or you don’t.

Your complaints are loud and bitter, but they fall very flat, because every last one of us who started the game since wars were introduced has had to fight with weak, insufficient war teams.

My first war, I couldn’t even field 3 full hits. I know exactly how hard it is to fight a team hundreds of points above you with 1* and 2* heroes. The only difference is, I didnt run to the forum and complain about it being unfair.

At my second alliance, I coordinated hits by our weaker members. It’s possible to three flag a team 1000+ points stronger. I know, because I coached our players through doing it many many times.

@SirGorash is Free 2 Play and relatively new as a player, so your attacking him for explaining what to do here is particularly inapropriate. He’s telling you what an alliance much like yours has done successfully. It’s not like 7 Days Departed is telling you to suck it up.

If your alliance won’t focus on tank kills, or work together to coordinate kills, that’s no one’s fault but yours. Demanding that your enemy change their strategy because you find in inconvenient for how you’d prefer to play seems pretty silly to me.

8 Likes

My alliance is nowhere near 7DD :joy:

As Garanwyn said I’m a new-ish player. My strongest team has one maxed 5* hero in it. I don’t have enough maxed 4* for 6 flags yet so for my last flag I have to use 3* heroes and pray to God. And I’m one of the strongest in my alliance, so you can imagine how weak we are :rofl:

It’s basically an alliance almost full of f2p players who work and don’t have enough time to play sometimes. There are some people from Europe so it’s not easy to coordinate attacks, but we still try to.

I wasn’t telling you that it’s fine those guys use the Aife strategy, or that you have to suck it up. I was just saying your alliance can beat teams that are way stronger than your own teams. High defense numbers shouldn’t scare your teammates.

I’m not bragging or anything but in our last war we beat some russian guys who had many teams of 4200+. My Alliance’s strongest team is 3800, and our weakest is 2100. So, everything is possible.

Anyway, good luck in your war again :+1:

5 Likes

I don’t have beef with@SirGorash nor am I attacking him.

Thank you for re-itteratimg the “because this doesn’t work against me they shouldn’t fix this problem” argument that I did call out in my post though. It’s nice when someone who doesn’t how logic works uses name calling and redirection to prove that they don’t know how logic works.

The “tactic” is called sand bagging and is an emergent behavior present in all aggregate point scoring team games. Every game that wants to remain healthy adjusts their point scoring system to discourage sand bagging whenever it happens, not just when it affects the top one hundred.

I do understand that aggressive attacking heroes and defensive healing heroes are scored on the same system and that hitting auto-fill and setting your team is a recipe for disaster.

They already have an AI system that rates your roster for what its “best team” number should be. They could use this system to rank players within an alliance, assign points to the bottom portion, whatever they test that portion to be. Then sequester those points for those teams and reassign the remaining points among the upper portion of the alliance according to the teams they submit.

I submit this suggestion as a fix for a problem I am watching undfold that I know will be detrimental to the health of the game.

I also understand that sandbaggers will continue to look for other ways to cheat the system.

Now, are you going to name call and redirect or do you want to talk about the problem?

Also, not having an encyclopedic knowledge of the background of every person who could reply is not a counter argument to the point.

Really? Because you literally replied to his post and told him he was wrong. Despite him pointing out that this strategy is a loser against his not even top 1000 alliance.

I get that you think anyone who can beat this strategy must be super strong, and you don’t care that the evidence disagrees with you.

But it makes your arguments sound nonsensical when you ignore that evidence and act like the strategy is invincible against lower level alliances.

Your basic position boils down to “anything that forces me and my alliance to change how we play in order to still win is cheating.” That seems like a very bad definition of cheating to me.

Redirect, name call. Check.

Cookie Settings