I tried to search if it was already proposed but I couldn’t find anything, at least in the same way I want to suggest it.
The idea is an auction house for heroes with payment in gems. Each transaction will be ‘taxed’ by 20% (so you earn 80% of the winning sum), it will be open to everyone and not only your alliance and there will be no ‘buy now’ option. Let’s say the set time would range from 1 day to 1 week.
In this way I can’t see any way to exploit the system and give your heroes to alt accounts or friends.
Old players will be able to make some gems out of the same heroes they have in multiple copies.
New players will have a softer start being able to buy some 3* and 4* they really need, for example an healer, and being able to enjoy the game mechanics (events, unfarmable loot quests, class quests) earlier.
SG will still earn money from it, people will buy gems not only for pulls but also to get their wanted hero.
I guess the big whales will rule the market at the beginning but I think it would even out soon in a few months.
Well for the players, especially new ones, this would obviously be good. The market would be flooded wth 3*s that higher level players would rather sell for a few gems than feed for a bit exp. If you consider that they can get them for free in lvl 20 TCs this would change the game balance a lot. Some might start running 4 Tc20s so they can farm gems.
Hotms would be really expensive. I think about ~26000 gems at the beginning. Maybe some F2P players would seel them for less so they can buy other heores they need, which would drop their price. Also market movement: high prices at the start of the month, low at the end and a rise after they become unobtainable. I guess some would try to speculate. Buy them when they are low and sell them them high.
Then you have to condider if you allow to sell ascended heroes. I think this would be bad for the devs as less players are going to buy offers with ascension materials.
I think overall this would be rather unpredictable. 20% tax means some gems are lost which forces the players to buy some, but a lot of F2P (or low paying) players can now obtain large sums if they are lucky, which means they are less likely to spend money.
Overall good for players, bad for the devs I think. It might be profitable if this feature is attractive enough for new players so they will keep playing.
I read the other topics about auction house and the proposals were different. I can see the danger of exploiting that system there.
With the taxation for each transaction and the fact that it will be open to everyone (not only your alliance), the dangers are really minimal.
Heroes obtained through the TC20 will likely drop in price very soon and it will help newer players to be able to compete with the top ones, thus be more inclined to spend gems for the latest heroes released to stay in that league. You will still need to farm to level up them so it will be still a long process to go.
Even the speculation would be really risky with the taxation. Let’s say I buy Kageburado for 20000 gems. I will need to sell him at least for 25000 to get the same amount I spent…
whale goes to the auction to buy that Kage for 20,000 instead of spending potentially much more on rng
out of those 20,000, 16,000 goes to a player who sold Kage. SG really only gets a value of 4,000 gems sold
player who received 16,000 probably is not going to buy more gems for a while. Especially if he is c2p who just randomly got a really nice pull.
the 16,000 the c2p player now got are probably more than enough to get a full rainbow team of not so shiny 5* and 4*. Think of things like Obakan, Thorne, Leonidas. Because they are TC20 heroes, their market price would be minimal. Everyone getting a dupe would straight away sell it to get some gems back
with such easiness getting less desireable heroes, everyone would be running around with shiny rosters, so most people would be spending less and less, relying on selling the dupes to collect for better heroes.
And out of that, only 20% of value of the gems purchased goes back to SG, the rest just keeps recycling within the player base. Now you spend the gems on summon and poof - they are gone. In your proposal you spend 20,000 gems on a hero, another player get 16,000 gems, another player gets 12,800 gems etc. Don’t have time to calculate specifically but out of a single purchase of 20,000 gems, the total value of gems that went into player base is let’s say probably like 60,000.
And you say the dangers are minimal? To whom? Perhaps to a player who wants all the best heroes in the game as soon as possible. Definitely not to a company that makes it living out of selling these gems.
The premise of a “tax” or transaction fee on the trade does have some benefits, and it has been brought up before as a potential solution at least somewhat akin to your idea, I think.
This looks like it may be a similar idea:
There was also some interesting discussion in this thread:
There’s a lot of discussion on various approaches there, which are probably worth reading through. But I’ll try to pick out a few of the tax-related ones for direct relevance:
A couple follow-up posts on that brought up some points similar to what @Suicide_Bunny said:
My personal thought is that many things about this game’s premise of hero collection remind me of collectible card games I played when I was young. In the universe of physical card games, trading and buying/selling are natural inevitabilities, and in some ways part of the fun of buying card packs or visiting collectible shops.
That makes me wish there were some similar mechanism here.
But I suspect in the case of E&P, the cat is out of the bag, so to speak. It’s hard for me to imagine introducing any form of trading or sales, even with anti-abuse mechanisms in place, when so many people have spent so much on RNG summons already. Presumably a lot of those people would feel slighted that they could have potentially acquired heroes they were after less expensively through a trade/auction system.
And SG has seemed to express a desire, in general, to somewhat insulate players from each other.
While alliances and global chat have social components, they’re really the exception. SG has indicated a disinterest in direct trading of mats, hero trading/selling, and even private chat. The fact that the Alchemy Lab is being implemented as a solution to mat trading “with the computer” instead of between players is a good indication of this.
They could certainly change their minds, but I think any variation of exchange between players is unlikely.
I personally think there’s more possibility SG would consider something like the Alchemy Lab, but for heroes, where you could “trade” a hero you had for another, with what would be presumably some cost and an RNG component involved.
That idea, too, has been proposed/discussed a fair amount on the forum, though I have no idea how likely it is to be seriously considered.
I do not understand so much fear of losing gems … of the game remains and purchases in the game … for me the gems are only worth to get good heroes or necessary materials. and that you can only buy in the game. If I put a hero in the auction and they buy it for me … what am I going to do with the gems? spend them in a roll to see if I get one I want or hope to put in the auction a hero I want. please comment on my idea.https://forum.smallgiantgames.com/c/ideas-feature-requests
I am not in fear of anything. I just want to outline to you why it is not reasonable to expect the solution you described to be ever implemented in as friendly form as you describe.
Think of it this way - why would your idea make sense to you and why you want it implemented? Because you want a way that will get you the heroes you want by spending less gems.
What do SG as a business want? Do they want players satisfied with spending less gems? Hell no. They want players to spend more gems.
So why would SG ever make a decision that would allow people to spend less gems to be satisfied?
It is as reasonable as you going to your boss and asking him if he can change your salary so you will earn 20% of what you earn currently. And at the same time, you will deliver the same satisfactory results.
Would you ever do it? I don’t think so. So why would you expect SG do something basically the same? They are fine where they are. Once they see in their raw data that people no longer spend gems on summons, they will start thinking about their business model and how to reach to customers’ pockets again. But I think we are far from there yet. And once we’re there, there won’t be topics about auction houses for heroes but for ascension materials or talent coins.
Playing devil’s advocate, there’s an argument to be made that the randomness of drawing heroes discourages some players from spending gems/money, and those same players might happily spend more if they knew what they were getting.
That said, I agree that all evidence so far points to it being incredibly unlikely we’ll see any form of direct purchase of heroes implemented, barring some very significant changes to the game and SG’s mindset expressed so far.
Yup, I am quite certain though that the amount of potential revenue lost this way is a fraction of how much others spend more than what they would if there was such certainty.
And again, I am not a guy that praises the system for what it is, rng drives me insane on many occasions and part of me wants some regulations there. Everything is about loot boxes and rng recently and it has to collapse at some point, people can only spend so much on so many games. But for now, I just learnt to live with it, and the fact that you don’t need everything you want to still enjoy the game. Actually, I think having all you want would make the experience much worse and far less satisfying. It is chasing the rabbit that matters, huh.
I’m not personally entirely certain about that; if it were my business decision to make, I’d be doing some user behavior and conversion optimization studies and collecting data for analysis. Perhaps they’ve done that.
But all evidence is that the current system is working extremely well for SG on the revenue front, and I completely agree with you that they’re unlikely to risk upsetting that unless it stops working, or external factors like regulation necessitate it.
lol Fair point. “Some cost and an RNG component” definitely describes summoning again.
I was imagining something that gave you “credit” for the rarity of the hero(es) being traded in. Like if you traded in a 5* you’d have increased odds (or even a guarantee, if the transaction cost were high enough) to get a 5* as a replacement, but that which one you got would still be random.
Still probably unlikely to happen, though. It’s more complicated and potentially confusing, and there’s little obvious upside for SG offering it.
Mmmm I’m sorry but I can’t follow you. Let’s see how it would work with an hypothetical Kageburado.
If Kageburado gets sold for 25000 gems, the first owner gets 20000 and SG earns 5000 + 25000 bought by the buyer. The first owner will have 20000 gems to spend elsewhere, maybe some cheaper 5* or some pull. In either case part or all of it will still be wasted (aka earned by SG) in taxes or pulls. Where do you see a problem there?
The buyer will use 25000 gems straight instead of x pulls? Yes, true. But he will still have to buy them… maybe the actual system he would get it with a single pull or maybe he would spend more. I think that, with time, prices will allineate with the chances you have to get it. In any case he will not get any other hero, any HOTM or the likes… so it’s still something less he gets for a straight buy.
In any case I think that both the buyer and the seller will be happy because they will have what they wanted for a fair amount of gems instead of relying on luck. Many people (and big spenders) quit the game after a lot of unlucky pulls, I think in this case SG will win their presence and future purchases of gems.
On the other side, the lucky puller that sold the hero will have an head start to create a good starting roster, he will enjoy the game and probably will spend more in the future.
For example, I spend no more than 10-15€ per month. This is the amount of money I’m willing to pay for a videogame. If, after x months, I will feel frustrated I will quit without any remorse. I play for fun, what’s the point when the fun is gone?
With auction houses I will still spend the same amount of money but it’s more likely that I will enjoy the game for a longer time… I can save my gems for the wanted hero for a special team I have in mind for raids and challenges, having fun with it. If I’m already happy with what I have I would still spend that money in pulls to get something different. Maybe pulling a particular hero would suggest me a new strategy, leading me to spend more money in pulls or at the auction house.
Wow thank you zephyr1! You are obviously better than me in forum searches
I used to play MTG when I was younger and yes, trading was one of the funniest part of the game. I think it’s a good example of a system that worked and still works. There are people more eager to pray the Luck God and buy dozens of packs and boosters. Other prefer to spend their money straight for their wanted cards.
WOTC still makes a lot of money each time a new expansion comes out.
With a taxed auction house, SG will make money even for each transaction, something that doesn’t happen with a physical card game. So I really can’t see any danger in it.
That’s one of the games I played too, and I agree that trading/buying was both fun and practical.
One question to consider (and I’ve seen brought up in conversation before) is whether a leveled hero would “reset” for trade. Allowing purchasing of maxed heroes would be, I think, a problematic move too far in the direction of P2W.
This is true, but I think the argument for that is less SH making money, and more that friction in trades is necessary in this system. It become problematic for maintaining balance and preventing P2W if I can not only buy any hero I want, but also later resell it for the same price I bought it for originally.
Rumor has it that the new class emblem system has a similar option for reclaiming emblems from a hero with a tax of sorts in receiving fewer emblems back than were used for the upgrades on the hero. That’s necessary to prevent players from moving class emblems around with reckless abandon to suit the needs of a titan, War, event, or even raid. I think that’d be needed here too — though having the hero’s level reset on trade could address that too.
Lol thanks. I think I’ve gotten better at finding things over time. I also can almost always remember at least some component of things I’ve read before, usually enough to find them again.
I’m sure I’ll be referencing this thread at some point.