Are we heading to Pay2Win? Plus, other concerns

With respect to Sarah’s response … did they announce something about the nerf of the elementary chests? because I just opened one yesterday and another today with 2 different accounts, and received only boots and covers and junk in the 2 and not a single gold coin in either of the two. I used to get 4 to 5 hero dollars a month when I started playing, now I can take away the one I can get in the event … maybe with luck … I’ll get one more a month. I think I can say that practically 100% of the community have noticed a very big nerfeo in the booties, I understand that we are all wrong …


20 caratteri

I need 3 tabards to ascend sartana.
I have 2800 gems I bought it before
went to shop “featured crap” “get at least 2” for 600 gems… tabard is there
This is what I got for the 600 gems 1st try
3 bractice sword
1 trap tools ( have 6 already)
2 dagger (have157)
This is what I got 2nd try
1 trap tools ( have7 already)
3 training manual ( have 770)
No tabard not even 1 for 1200 gems
This is blackmail

That‘s still lucky. Often people end up without any ascension item.

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do not spend money … do not make this mistake … the system sees what you have and does not give it to you … if you had only one tunic you gave it maybe … but if you miss it 1 you’ll never have … I have made this mistake a thousand times, I spent 7000 euros and maybe even more in 11 months and I’ve never had any material from those called … also because the scam is there … to ascend a 5s serves tome of tactics and damascus blade that you can not buy … I have at least 5 heroes to climb but I have no blade, I saw one in 4 months and I used it for alaise … every day is a titan between 9/10/11 stars, at least 2 trunks raid and 2 or 3 trunks monsters … never seen a blade … it’s called legalized scam !!!


Taking the @Sara’s reply that they didn’t nerfed the loot from the beginning of the game without it being announced…

Could it be our perception?

I mean, you’re here long time, before wars, and after the wars. Before wars you didn’t need let’s say more than 2-3 heroes of the same colour. Now you need 6+. That’s huge increase in demand for heroes, and if loot stayed the same, I think the feeling would be that it’s worse now - because you need more and you don’t get more. Before you needed some, you got some, and that was okish.

So I think maybe we should concentrate in not saying ‘SG you did something bad to us in secret’, but say ‘SG we now need more, gameplay changed, give us more chance even if we don’t pay for each mat’.

Edit: I think they should investigate that there’s no bug in the algorithms which use randomisation, that’s the base line, of course.

Also, I think they should do some data analysis from logs. If they need help, I’m here :wink:


I think there is an assumption that SGG cares if this game continues or not.

From what I’ve seen and the lack of response, I don’t believe they do. It’s a cash cow they are trying to milk for all it’s worth.


This game is not random. It simply wouldnt work being random. If it takes 10.000 samples to make sure its accurate, then lots of players who maybe kill only 30 titans in a month could get nothing at all or maybe 10 orbs and nothing else from the others ascension material. Because it would be random. This is happening? Not for real…

It could be a coincidence, but i am most f2p and I got since the beggining of the game almost the same number of ascension itens for each color. If i open 2-3 chests a day, in 6 months I would have opened like 1k Chests. It could be a total mess for lots and lots of people.

I dont know how it works but i am pretty sure its not complete random. Nothing will make me believe so


@Sara, absolutely. There is no reason for me not to be civil. You are a human being just like me. :slight_smile:

I do hope the team at Small Giant can see my heart, and others, that most of us want the game to succeed. We just want to make sure that both sides have that mutual interest.

I think if there were a way to help win back some of the lost hearts, it would be, let’s work together :slight_smile: As company and playerbase. Let’s have more civil conversations about the game direction and mutual trust that we all want the same things - a successful game that brings success to your business and company, and continuing to build on what is already a great game. I truly believe we can accomplish this <3



I will not directly address my post to Sara as she just confirmed that the Staff is keeping track and reading closely every post. I hope this is the case and this is why I will make a suggestion how lots of the frustration experienced by the community can be addressed.
As you SG already have an excellent platform (This forum) for the community to discuss, collaborate and also complain. Please build a dedicated section where you post the stats of all the heroes, Summon probabilities, loot drop rates, other relevant data requested and of course announce all the changes you do in the forum not only in your build notes.


I maybe be going uncivil, but its with a purpouse.

A company would not admitt being wrong. No one does that. You could change every single day the codes betwen 0,5% chance to 1% chance and nobody would know that.

I dont know how to quote, so lets go like this, you said:

" That being said, we do try to keep a good balance as we value all of our players regardless of how they choose to progress in the game."

I will answer with a quote: “Do or do not. There is no try.” In fact trying is nothing, because right now everything that is new is payable. New avatars, loot tickets, double builder… Everything that was implemented was so you could buy it. This is NOT keeping a good balance. You cant and you wont fool anyone. If you guys try to go to this path everybody will lose.

For instance, you admitted that the Rare titan had a bug and was not showing up, now for me its not random, it show up to everybody in the same order and almost at the same time… Why? It was said it would be Random, but it is not, so maybe it is because you were unable to do in the correct form? yMeaning that you dont know how to make things random. I will make it easier for you, you can go a head and say that it was done on purpouse.

If you can’t make a rare titan appear randomly how can I trust you that all the loots and summons are really random? I can´t!!!

Also in my post above I say my opinion about the drops being random. I dont think they are completly random.

Thanks for being brave to be out here, If you dont own the company dont take it personal.


Where can the build notes be found? According to this, the elemental chest nerf was noticed in the build notes, right? Is it possible to reread former build notes somewhere?

Sara is right, everything is random. BUT it is controlled random and that makes huge difference. In the end both of you are right. Crazy I know.


I waited so long for this simple answer, and i can’t understand why.
Ok, no matter, if i complain even when we get what we want, then there’s no meaning for anyone of the staff to come in touch with us.
So for this, i really thank you.

Side note: you are indeed a small company… But for your own choice.
There’s no need to remind how good was the profits of this small company, and in any other business when you increase your customers and increase the volume of affairs, you increase the production and consequentially the staff too.

So telling us the same old story of “we are few” it’s kinda hilarious right now and not really acceptable.
Even more because you even use volunteers moderators and beta testers to take care of something is of your concern.

That said, i really thank you again.


As moderators go… wait fooor it.
You have got to be… one of the most human ones I’ve ever come across.:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
I know I’ve gotten on your wrong side before & you handle things pretty good.
You’re ok :+1:

You should be paid.
They CAN afford to pay you.
41 million dollar investment ring any bells?


I agree Rook has to get some salary. Maybe symbolic - 10 k diamonds or so.


@Sara I think the minimum I would like to see implemented is some kind of bad luck prevention system. A lot of successful games have implemented that. It will remove a lot of bad will from people. Bad will is cancer to a game and the business. It has made me quit twice and this time it is probably final. I would need a lot of incentive to come back.

That means new fun stuff to do in the game and a fairer hero acquisition system. Why can’t we buy something for a constant price? That is how the real world works. Someone wants something, they know what they want and what they get and what is costs. Then they can decide to spend or not.

Consider a young boy doing some work like mowing laws to save up for some nice heroes in the game they love, then get unlucky and end up with nothing at all for that work because they just got unlucky. It is sad to see so many gaming companies using this kind of business model.

It is possible to provide fair ways to pay for progression, without this kind of randomness. The current lottery system isn’t fair and probably not even legal in many countries. It just hasn’t been tested in court.


100% agree with what you said.

it’s actually a gambling service without a gambling licence.


I have not finished to read the thread so maybe someone else replies the same. I still like this game but not so much as before. This was my first F2P where sold stuff was based on RNG. I should have flee when I understood that but I stay. The big mistake!

Two hundred percent agree with that. That’s my conclusion too. For now I just install The Witcher and will start it again. They are so many MMO available for only 10/15 euros per month that spending much more on a P2W game does not make sense.


Thank you for writing this haha. I was thinking the same thing and no way I could’ve said it as well!


Freeeeak. Man. You are chill. Well done. I expected at least a little more spunk or fire there though. I think the ‘let’s collaborate’ is an interesting approach. I’m honestly curious to see how it goes.

That said… I hope you are gonna hold them to that and not let them slither away with their savvy response.

It is good they haven’t done any of those things that @sara denied. BUT that doesn’t really address your concerns that the game’s Pay Model is unsustainable for players to remain competitive while spending a reasonable amount of cash money.

The grind of HOTM and event heroes, and potentially Season 2 heroes … their relative excellence and cost to attain… this is an issue that’s being exacerbated with each passing month and each additional cost weighted onto the players at the top. You’re right to be worried, and to try to engage SG in a conversation to hopefully impact some of the underlying mechanisms.

So I hope you will be able to build this collaborative relationship with them. And if not, I hope you’ll come back with some fire and some spunk.

And. Again. Hilarious that a company making 33mil leans on being small as an excused. Cmon :stuck_out_tongue: :laughing:


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