Are we heading to Pay2Win? Plus, other concerns


Hi everyone and hopefully SG!
I’ve followed this thread with interest the last week and there are lots of valid points. I’m not too concerned with the randomness of boards, wu & raids as losing some makes winning more valuable. But I’m concerned with the drop rate and the odds of summoning something of value to me. And that’s my big point: why not being more generous? You add more heroes with new event and Hotm, you add AW that demands a bigger bench. But the odds and drops doesn’t improve (or as debated get nerfed)? This creates frustration with every gamer that’s part of your core business model. Being generous wouldn’t affect your profits cuz there is always something new to get - and giving it is TOTALLY FREE from your side. But Iets focus more on what we would like instead of the opposite.

My requests:

  1. Add original 4&5* to the daily summon (you can keep the less then 5% chance of getting them there)
  2. Greatly improve the drop rate of AM (we need thousands of them to level all the great heroes we pay you for).
  3. Add more playable content or frequency of old events so we can do something else then farm 8-7 (most of the adventures ain’t even worth the WE).
  4. Add old hotm to TC20 and improve the odds of 5*
  5. Bad luck cap, buyable heroes or greatly improved odds for 5*s in the summons.

All for me and thanks for a fun game and a great community of dedicated players!


I think you’re the one who is wrong, there are a lot of totally free games and what is it? Do not earn anything? Do they do it for fun? they have revenues for downloads, for advertising etc etc … do you think that the bulk of the game is P2W? I could assure without fear of being wrong that for each whale there will be between 50 and 100 F2P and c2P players that are what give life to the game. If the whales were gone there would still be a game to play, if all the F2p and C2p were goodbye game

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When I say you have NO idea it truely means just that.

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We will see who gives the reason the time. a greeting

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Been plying for about 5 month and cant really say if drops has gone worse
or not.
But from my view as a new fairly new player this should be easy to fix
with more adventures.
make it so there is three adventures running all the time
one common for new players
one uncommon for vets
and one rare like shilohdessert where we get those uppgrade mats.
And if you want to make alliance battles more fun make it so alliancemembers can go in and see battles
going on in real time.


The only way to make them listen is to stop playing. If they continue to get good revenue, it means the business model is fine.

Just the place for a Snark! I have said it once

Business model is fine for now but not in longterm. What I see more and more top players are not happy. I’m not top player but I feel the same. Spent a lot of money in the past and now thinking drastically to decrease my spendings. For August I have 50 pull budget (new season is coming). In September around 400 € and from October 100€ max.

I think developers are not stupid they understand very well that every successful game has life span. They are trying to get out of this game much as possible. Look at Angry Birds, was Nr.1 game but who plays it now? Same will be with E&P. Especially with their prices.


i’m only speaking from 4.99 VIP + occasional .99/1.99 purchases. so cannot really relate to how you feel.


i would like hotm > 1 year old be available from the training camp. Also increase in the ascension drop rate.

if the majority of peanut spender/ftp leaves the game, whom else can the elites pick on?


I have been following this thread since its beginning. I have been playing this game since late last year, and have been in two alliances (so far). I have started buying the VIP pass after 3 months to accelerate my progress, and buy some packages here and there.

I cannot really speak about the gap between ftp and ptw players growing or not. All I know is that there has to be a gap between those who pay and those who don’t, just like there has to be a gap between more experienced players and less experienced players, because time and money should get you something to show for them. Nothing valuable comes for free. And as far as I can tell, boards are random, only negative bias makes the bad ones stick out on many players’ minds.

Transparency is key to avoid confusion, conspiracy theories (to some extent, because they will pop up no matter what), and general grumpiness. I don’t really see the downside of publishing the drop rates of items in loot and summons. Managing expectations is really important for both sides (devs and players). This game clearly is a game of patience, so improving players’ experience is key to keeping them around.

By now, what I have figured out (for myself) is if you pace yourself between trying to acquire decent heroes (summons or TC20) and leveling up your heroes, the limiting factor is more the time needed to get feeder heroes than ascension items because it simply takes a lot of XP to finish off the last levels of T3 and T4 for 5* heroes and the last levels of T4 for 4* heroes. So personally, I don’t fixate on trying to get one specific hero, and I would prefer having 3* and 4* trainer heroes in my loot at least as much as ascension items.

Besides the very poor loot for alliance wars (and the bad matching) and the excessively low chances of decent loot in various chests, what is getting really boring is having to farm the same levels over and over.

One fix for some of the issues I have mentioned above would be (IMHO) to implement more exciting missions than get your buildings to this and that level for a few gems. Since the devs like RNG so much, how about a mission with a series of say 8 map levels chosen randomly to complete in a sequence (or complete again this randomly chosen province) that would then guarantee at least say a 3* or 4* trainer hero and an unfarmable item. This would make farming more interesting as we would have to farm levels than we stopped farming and we’d have the guarantee of getting something we want. Have one such mission a day, or whenever the player wants (the natural limit would be the number of flags he/she has). You could also simply have the extra mission after completing a level, “hey now if you do this level, you get this automatically”. Also, higher levels really need to bring better loot, otherwise once completed, what’s the incentive to ever complete them again.

It would be nice to see some more constructive and large-scale changes to keep everyone more motivated/happy - or at least less grumpy.




Your say what I said about having better rewards for completing map levels and those rewards getting better as you go through higher levels.
If you want to keep reaping those rewards you have to redo those whole levels (Providence).

As it stands now each stage of those levels already change everytime you redo that same stage so you rarely redo the exact same stage twice, so getting bored wouldn’t really be the issue but without real or proper decent rewards what is the real point of redoing those levels at the moment other than to farm and gain xp points.


From one time to the next, doing the same level does not change drastically (the number of monsters per waves changes between 3 and 4, but that’s it AFAIK).

Having a daily special mission with special reward to do for instance map levels 7-4, 13-2, 6-8, 8-7, 20-4, 17-1, 5-8, and 14-5 in that sequence and get a guaranteed 4* yellow trainer and an Orb of Magic (in addition to the normal loot and XP of said map levels) could introduce a bit of variation and a means to get better loot to help a player level up his/her heroes.


So @Neko what you’re saying is,
if they, SG said it, then it must be “TRUE !” and we should just blindly “Be-Lieeeve”.

hmmm, :thinking: just now thinking about how @Sara said there was no changes in the drop rates of loot. (Does elemental chest ring any bells?)
hmmm :lying_face:.

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Try to stay correct. She never said that they didn‘t change loot probabilities. She said that if it was changed was stated in update notes. Well „further improvements and stuff“ haha


what’s with the haha bit?

It was never stated in the update notes.
Maybe you consider the elemental chests took on one of those minor improvements.
Yes, I believe, repeat, I believe repeat I belie…


Money, time and work (physical and mentally). Please, do not forget time and work. You can be born with a lot of money. I want something valuable because I put a lot of time and work into this game. The p2w people can have something valuable but just a little bit more then the not spending players.


All of us are the community of the game, and of course they make money from me, but in a different way.

If they need money to hire developers or pay the servers, if the need investors, it is not the same having 2 million players that today are not paying, that having zero.

With time I may consider paying something, let’s say 5€ a year.

It’s almost nothing, but if 2 millions players move to pay 5€/year is a lot of money…

A good CEO will consider all options to make money. And I am sure SG has a good CEO…


I tried to point out in an ironical way that her statement will always stay true if she referrs to update notes saying „further improvements and adjustments“ when she is talking about changes about loot being told in update notes.

I know it‘s not correct like that and update notes have to be way more detailed. But I guess only „positive“ notes are declared in detail and most of the „negative“ ones are hidden under the slogan „further adjustments and improvements“ :wink:


Actually is the only logic conclusion even for me.
Or maybe the best excuse right now?

Either way, would be cute hear it by their own mouth.
Or maybe i have to say keyboards?

Well, whatever.


And here is where I disagree. What the P2W customers get is not more mats, but the opportunity to use them on better heroes. I have dozens of unleveled 5* in my roster, and realistically between the shortage of mats and feeders, as well as the influx of new heroes, most of them will never get done. I contrast that with my nearly-F2P account, where the only two 5* heroes I’ve gotten are Morgan le Fay and Obakan. I wouldn’t use tonics and tabards on those heroes on my main account (Lianna and Sartana would get them), but my F2P has happily ascended them – because that’s what he has.

Sure, P2W do get some additional ascension mats through purchased packages, but the vast majority drop from events, rare quests, titans, mystic visions, and chests.