Are season 1 heroes under-powered? No longer relevant? Can they compete in global top 20?

They have been in diamond within last 1.5 yrs I was using a Richard tank with costume side at 1/1 as tank staying in diamond just 3 months ago let alone what would have been possible 1.5yrs ago. I still see defences in diamond including standard S1 heroes without costume all the time. They might not be in top 100 but they are still in diamond.

Not sure what the quote of me playing mid-level refers to?

As far as regular side I mean non costume side as I prefer the paladin class to barbarian when I was using him as tank the costume was 1/1 I only levelled the costume side after I took emblems off him for Frida to give me the stat boost the emblems had taken away. (The mana boost is irrelevant for me as despite playing over 2 years I still don’t have a blue mana troop)

Just for “where” they are

They used to be visible. I edited-out diamond, that’s a fair enough thing to do.
I don’t see them in defenses, but that doesn’t mean other also don’t.
Thanks @Kilted
I don’t even see them in my raid log either, but my defense stays above 2,600

I can’t connect the dots for how there is a diminutive effect happening any clearer.

And can’t agree that costumes have eliminated that effect.
Especially since,
they are not actually S1 cards…
They’re separate!

I believe this idea that 'costumes are balance’ to be dangerous:
After the old hotm get their update,
I can’t see any reason for any further updates unless it is to fix bugs
Or…
Strengthen recent releases like the last couple updates did.

All other subsequent buffs
Can be…
Purchased
.

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My alliance has a warscore around 140k and i tell you what, 44/150 heroes used by our current opponent are S1 5* with or without costumes. Hands down it is a weaker one. Usually its between 10 and 20%. Still this hasn’t changed significantly after we consistantly fight top100 alliances. C-Kadi, C-Marjana, C-Magni, Joon with or without C, C-Thorne, C-Isarnia and Vivica or Lianna still see alot of play Some more, some less but they are present.

There is only 25 minutes left,…

Is it possible for you to flip the board and take a picture of it? I would like to count how many of the 44 have no costume.
Because…
That is the debate! You continue to agree with everyone that costumes are relevant.

I can also look at the name of the alliance and see if they are a:

That you consistently fight.

Thanks!
And I understand if you can’t achieve this. Wouldn’t be surprised at all

Also please tap on the team so we can see that no costume bonus exists.

This is why the thread has gone viral.
It seems the above poll does not agree that the premium costume received / Purchased in a separate portal which delivers separate results is…
…S1 that are received in a TC

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It is interesting that they use purple tank and a purple wing. Why not yellow flank ? :thinking:

To drain enemy roster of counters
leaving the last war flags in great jeopardy with an excess,
that does half tile damage
Also, holy is limited for that “nearby” extra damage like available-Clarissa would deliver if the color was reversed.

Troop support is another problem for tactics like this down yonder

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Ok so referring to the first part of your question i don’t think they are underpowered without costumes. I do agree though they cannot compete inside top20 global alliances who are close to ~150k warscore now not even top50. However We (currently rank 132) still see alot of them as i said between 10 and 20% the closer to top100 the less have no costume. That Number however grows outside of top100 (250-500 i would assume). So we are still talking about ~ 1% of the playerbase.

Our current opponent is not a valid argument cause they have 2 players who left the alliances during war, so their war score is dropped and its only 29vs29.






We face lower Top100 Alliances like Teletubbies, Unbelehrbar, Ottoman Empires, The United Legends

I did not read every comment in this debate sry, did only read the opening post and the title. So my argument was about S1 in general without splitting between costumed and non costumed.

Is this the main reason?
I thought that they do that because 1:
Odin is best yellow defensive hero (ok, maybe Faline after buff but Odin is much more common) and he isn’t best flank for purple tank because if you use strong color against tank then damage from Odin will be highly reduced.
And, in my opinion, Elizabeth is much more dangerous than Odin.
And 2:
There are barely any yellows on wings because Morel/Cobalt are top blue heroes for defense so its logical to put them here and last spot is better place for Onyx(ninja family bonus) or Hannah(double fiends) than some yellow without any synergy with other heroes.

I’m asking out of curiosity. I think that not using certain color isn’t big problem for high level P2P players.

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So there are 4?

I neglected also. Equalizer is very good for snipers isn’t it? If there is a time to employ pure fast damage. This is it.

Other modes will have them replaced
or be much weaker

I just took 4 random screens? Wanna have all 30? :roll_eyes: Or is it enough ifi count them on my own and post it here?

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Nah, you keep on keepin’ on with the non-costumes S1. It’s fine

20/44 of s1 heroes no costume. 11/22 players with s1 heroes have a s1 hero without costume in their defense. 22/29 players overall.

2 Likes

20/150 are S1 sniper during
Equalizer War
In not top 100 alliance.

Although, top 100 will deploy them during equalizer also.

So for now, until you get better options.
Equalizer War is S1 Mode
Like Rush is Slow Mode

This is an extra perspective that I didn’t have before. Thanks @giZm0_o

I am in a Top 500 alliance, in the last war we fielded 16 S1 heroes and 18 S1 heroes with costumes. Thats 34 out of 150. Equallizer war favors snipers, so we used some Lianas, Joons, Magnis, Marjanas and Sartanas. Costumed Joon, Kadilen and Marjana are used in nearly every war. If we look at pure ( uncostumed ) S1 heroes, we see a 10 % usage in defense. Is 10% relevant ? Many wars are very tight, nobody would use second class heroes if he/she has better ones, so yes they are still relevant to most players. If we assume the top 300 Alliances would not use them, that would be some 10.000 players out of 1.2 mio. For 1.19 mio players they are relevant even without costumes.
Happy gaming

They are still relevant because thats all a f2p can get.
Top 20, what does that even mean? I didnt know the game had a rank.

That is exactly what i was thinking about aswell. They just might not be relevant anymore for 1% or even less of the playerbase but on my opinion that should not be the criteria. It is obvious that the cannot compete anymore on the highest level of competition and as far as it goes for me that is nothing new but its also nothing to worry about.

If you tell a newbie that you can compete in top1- top5% if you build a f2p roster of S1 Heroes with some special heroes as support then would that be a good news?

Its like always you need to change the perspective to see something new :slight_smile:

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Emotions

Click for forum meta rant

You are not wrong

But

In my opinion,

Costumes v1.0 IMPLEMENTATION was the second worst decision SGG ever made ( 5* costumes without base hero )

while

Costumes v4.2 IMPLEMENTATION was the single worst decision SGG ever made ( no 3* / 4* costumes, 5* costumes only 5% chance in HA10 5* retraining. Past 5* HotM costumes in bimonthly, Tavern of Legends v3.0 while adding Elemental rainbow links )

And this topic’s video reinforces how GOOD some of those Classic 5* costumes are

It is one thing is you spend a weekend discovering you are bad at a FPS

It is another thing to build out HA10 for 36+ years trying to get a specific Classic 5* costume ( looking at you Marjana )

Costumes were such a missed opportunity ( do not even get me started about using all costumes + ninja mana speed mechanics to rebalance the fast vs slow game meta )

Monkey Paw

When I first saw Marjana’s costume, I first thought “Devs are fulfilling many long term player’s dreams”

My second was “Not surprised they released it in the last batch AND behind such a nasty Merciless RNG paywall”

It is like a Monkey Paw, or ■■■ hat genie, that pretends to give you what you want

Greedy

My latest thought ( while reading this post ) “Huh. That explains them taking Costume Chamber bimonthly and the 5% chance of a costume in HA10 5* retraining”

But I am not surprised with rumors coming from Beta, and visible around social media, that many players feel SGG are just trying to squeeze the most money out of micro transactions

Super Fans

Except to 1x forum staffer assigned to this forum topic, no one needs the pure negativity hidden behind this click

SGG has done an incredible job building Super Fans ( incredible forum, community structure for base alliance functions, etc. )

But the opposite of Love is not hate, but indifference

To hate something you have to care

A Super Fan, especially one with friends, and family still connected to Empires and Puzzles, care.

They care a lot.

SGG earned a lot of love ( especially the forum staff, and volunteers )

Now those same Super Fans, and all their social contacts, care deeply about the direction of the game

So much of Costumes v4.2 ignores, or outright weaponizes, that huge community and their feeling

Smoking science analogy

Abandon rational reason all who enter here.

There is no anti smoking zealot, like an ex smoking fan(atic)

And in many parts of the world smoking, especially in Merciless RNG casinos, is still 100% legal

Because all that science to weaponize smoking was not going to waste

It always interesting comparing freemium games to pre pandemic casinos with their vacation packages and free offers and activities for the whole family

Notes

Honestly too tired today

A quick search of my posts including search term rant should bore most people to tears

FIN

4 Likes

It’s not a criteria or an opinion. It’s a measurable sample size that can be used as a paint color for the canvas of the future.

The future doesn’t matter for a game that you throw away in 1 month.
But for a game that people play for years, then indicating trends should mean something!

Look again for your non-costume S1 after Equalizer.

Count again for your non-costume S1 next Equalizer!

I referenced tracked information through Titan Mafia about the appearance of S1 heroes in top 100 for a measurement of relevance.

This measurement does not encompass the bulk!

It is instead… the tip of the iceberg
If a problem can be recognized there…
Do not be fooled that it is isolated…!

It is, no doubt… something more,
Than a video about costumes.

And, In the end…
Metrics shouldn’t be needed at all
When the situation is obvious:

Well while i agree with your argument, i want to point out though that those who compete on the highest lvl in the game simply play a different game. We talk about players with 300? 400? Heroes and some of them with lile what ~100 maxed legendaries?. So if you have maybe the best in slot heroes and the 2nd or 3rd in each color and for each situation you evaluate heroes with another perspective like someone who just is about to max his 30th legendary. I still think that it is an isolated luxurary problem.

Question one should ask is: should those starter legendaries be good enough to compete on every lvl of the game? If the answer is yes then… why would someone even bother to get a better version of S1 heroes? If Quintus would be good enough, why would you want to have Senan or now Ludwig or Killhare?

Do i like this pay2win direction? No! But i don’t care about it because they do not give a poop about what we think about their business decisions. As long as i am able to generate fun and compete at a somewhat high lvl, i am pretty happy :slight_smile:

The counter to that is why would you want Ludwig, when the next portal will be stronger and faster?

And the point of the thread is that,
This is not happening…
while leaving costumes out of the equation!

Information about the past is readily available. Information about the future (in beta) is not.
The discrepancy between yesterday and tomorrow is so extreme,
That the hypothesis about relevance, is in dire jeopardy if costumes are allowed to replace balance updates. Especially…
For S1 heroes, and their costumes!

A video about “costumes”…
Not S1
should not minimize that hazard!

2 Likes

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