Are season 1 heroes under-powered? No longer relevant? Can they compete in global top 20?

General Discussion
46

Thanks for posting this @JekylandHyde !

The community wouldn’t exist the way it does without free individuals with no association to the developer putting free content out for others to view and make their own determinations of relevance.

I am not going to jump into the fray of splitting hairs on what the video should be called or how much obtaining a costume for your S1 hero alters and enhances the base heroes value in or out of costume. I just think everyone can make their own personal determination on how much that is (which will change by player and individual roster) and it is okay to not see eye to eye.

I was honestly just taken aback a little bit by how much hostility you got for posting a free video for people to watch for free and do what they want with. Whether I agree or disagree with 100% of it I am not going to yell at you for it and take it out on you. Nothing you posted was incendiary. This community only works if people are comfortable enough to share and post content.

If you have a beef with SH/Zynga (which would be fair), it’s not okay to yell at a normal player posting a video as if it is them.

I will say as a F2P of 3+ years I couldn’t even do what most the commenters are asking in terms of emblems, LBs, etc. If anyone is more likely to have emblems and bonuses loaded onto vanilla heroes it is the F2P crowd as that’s who they have to play with and the alternative is telling yourself after each raid “sure I lost because I don’t use emblems loaded on vanilla heroes, but the 1000 barbarian ones in storage will be great when I finally land Gravemaker (or Frigg, or Odin, or whomever else)”. You will likely die before that day comes, so use what you have.

Anyways, thanks for the video and I hope you, and others, keep making more.

Be safe out there!

:beers:

9 Likes
47

Is there misdirection about S1 heroes?

Are costumes just another free upgrade?

Are 5* costumes equally available as emblems?

Is there really…
Hostile yelling and screaming at poor j&h?

Or are you jumping into the fray/debate about these things?

Are there different methods to comment on water leaking into the boat?
Of course there are.

Shall we all just smile politely and quietly learn to swim?
Maybe

Is the boat actually sinking? That’s the real question. It can get emotiblu bulb bulb bluh blub bububb

2 Likes
48

Most of them are usable but are generally weak.

i still use them in wars sometimes but mainly because the lack of options (especially yellows i have)

my personal ranking is this without costumes

Good:
Snipers and leo

OK:
isarnia, kadilen, vivca, domitia

Not good (bad stats, damage, speed and/or utility):
justice, obakan, azlar, elkanen, Thorne, khan, Richard, elena

Garbage:
quintus, horghall

49

I do believe that we can discuss the game without getting personal. Why would you give someone you don’t know control over how you feel? :thinking: Keep in mind also that this is a global game, and not every place in the world communicates the same way. In some countries, to refuse a kindness is a great insult. In others, people speak in a much more straightforward manner.

That said, I felt compelled to throw in my two cents. Saying, “Look what I can do with S1 heroes!” and then posting a video with costumes throughout is silly. Arguing that you shouldn’t need to specify “c-“S1 Heroes is even sillier. But then again, I do believe I’ve heard of people posting things on the internet just to get a reaction…

I won’t claim to speak for the community, I will only echo the sentiment that when you say S1 I think vanilla hero available from TC20. Perhaps with enough attention we can get a sample size portion and project how many others feel the same? Many people get specific when they discuss heroes. It’s “LB, max-emblem, c-marj” not S1 marj.

However (no buts🤣) I enjoyed the video! Even more so I enjoyed reading something that moved me enough to quit lurking and comment. I for one am glad you’re out there. Keep doing your thing! Good pulls and good vibes for you all!

3 Likes
50

really?

yes 2020202202020

51

You used costumed S1 heroes or S1 heroes with costume bonus, costumed are not obtainable through TC 20 (I don’t count 5% once a week i HA) and you need to do pulls to get them, so these heroes doesn’t count as season 1 heroes.

Try this with pure S1 heroes - then the video will be relevant.

2 Likes
52

i remember, when they appeared, a muggy team taking down 5* maxed teams…

challenge: get 5 muggies and do whatever you want with them and kill 3 top20 in a row (reroll to get those 3)

53

I didn’t see anyone yelling. And the hostility I’ve seen in this post has come mainly from the OP because some people expressed their disagreement with his point of view.

Neither did the people that disagreed with him.

That includes also the capacity to listen to different points of view and handle disagreements.

My first lesson in economics in University: “There is no free lunch”. Nothing in life is free, even if you don’t pay it with money, most of the time you pay with time. And in this case the OP makes a revenue according to how many people click and watch his video. Not to mention that it helps his popularity, something very important for any online content creator. So it does not surprise me that he chose a misleading title for the video, as this brings him a personal advantage.

15 Likes
54

Elkanen costume is best 5* green fast hit-hard 3 target (and Prof. Lidenbrock’s kryptonite :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:) @JekylandHyde use him in his as main damage dealer in his green attack team to break highest trophy world record. That is why I think he is probably the best choice in his job (5*, green, fast, hit-hard 3 target) today.

55

He was one hour ago but now they released Quenell so not today :smiley:

4 Likes
56

Now, now. While I do agree with the statement that costumed S1 heroes are still S1 heroes, let’s not pretend the costumes are any more F2P friendly than other non TC heroes, because they’re not. They still need to be summoned the same way any non TC hero needs to be summoned.

8 Likes
57

They can definitely be helpful on offense. Especially with the costumes and the bonus that they add for stats and versions special skills. But on defense the S1 heroes are more of a liability. Placed properly a few can be effective on defense. But that again depends on if you have the costumes for them in most cases.

58

So this is a clickbait?

5 Likes
59

Lol. We don’t need him. He needs us to watch his flexing. :smiley:

6 Likes
60

The OP is struggling with definitions
Let’s clear that up:

In game terminology, this is called a

  • Skin

When you apply a skin to your character it functions exactly like a real-life costume …and changes the appearance, while the character is "still me"

There are no Skins for characters
in this game.

Here at E&P we have something called:

  • Balance Updates

In this (and other games) B.U. are free.
They become necessary over time, due to the nature of desirable merchandise which is a successful business strategy.

Despite an attempt to claim this strategy doesn’t exist with a S1 video about costumes, it was already admitted by SG:

This strategy has an effect,
a trend…
that causes older heroes to become
less desirable over time,
as can be seen here:

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Unfortunately…
Recent updates have not only become less frequent in the midst of rapid creep release…
They have also neglected the older heroes in trade for increased revenue by buffing new toys that did not financially preform as expected.

2022 appears promising for older Hotm.
However,
Cards like Inari continue to be fodder.

Yes But, there is another option:

  • Costumes…

Unlike skins, these generate separate effects, such as increased speed and stats, along with more desirable skills in some situations.
Kadilen is a strong example.
Unlike emblems or LB, your opportunity to collect them is 2 pulls from completing the event. You can drum-up another 1-2 pulls from a small variety of other free options.
Or… you can spend money…

Which eventually, If you have Inari.
She will remain less desirable for you!
Unless… you get extraordinarily, spectacularly, lightning-struck lucky!
with your 3-4 pulls. Or spend a ridiculous amount of money.
To collect a separate card.
Which delivers… separate results…

And finally:

  • The Problem

The Trend…
Can be realized when you stop spending.
Or carefully analyze why you have to continue doing so!

The price is steep for something that degrades …more rapidly…
with every passing portal.

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10 Likes
61

They are slightly more F2P friendly since you can get costumes through HA10, along with older event heroes and HoTMs. Of course, I’ve been running HA10 since February and haven’t gotten either… but that’s an aside.

62

I’d say one question can be answered objectively, the other two are subjective.

Yes. Costume bonus or no costume bonus, this can be done. The likelihood of someone limited to S1 heroes getting the required trophies to hit top 20 is fairly rare currently.

I will use this definition of relevant:

“appropriate to the current time, period, or circumstances; of contemporary interest.”

Subjectively, they are no longer relevant. Without costumes, many no longer level S1 5*s. The prevalent advice for levelling S1 heroes, “wait for something better. If you have the costume, what are your other choices”.

Again subjective, comparing fully ascended Magni (power 754) versus Morel (power 807), I would call that way under powered. This doesn’t even take into account the relative value of S1 specials compared to more recent hero specials, which make S1 heroes even more under powered.

I can’t tell you how other people interpret your OP and title. I see it as misleading at best.

7 Likes
63

This would be more convincing if it was coming from F2P or VC2P player…

When someone has majority of new shiny OP heroes and and say “hey, s1 are pretty good!”, they kinda contradicts themselves.

9 Likes
64

Yes they are, and so are season 2 and just about 90% of HOTM.
The only exceptions are about 5 or so costume S1, and even then, yes S1 is obsolete, and it’s insulting that a card like Ludwig takes the same amount of ascension mats as say Obakan.

1 Like
65

ok first off the title is not totally correct for some, SO WHAT? it did it’s job. It got your attention and you watched. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. The author is not gonna care if you disagree, he got you to view it. He can sit here and twist words forever to come out on top. SO you are all wasting your breath, typing whatever.

The fact is S1 is and will always be relevant especially the 4s . 5 are icing on the cake. Yes you will need to emblem and LB and if possible costume them to make them even more relevant. But s1 4* heroes have and will always be relevant.

WHY?
Now that is the question that we should be discussing.
First they are the easiest and most likely to obtain hero outside of S1 3* in every portal and TC.
They are also cheap to ascend and LB and emblem
Therefor the designers have done an amazing job at making and keeping them relevant

What use does anyone have for s1 4* even without a costume
well kiril/ grimm and boldtusk/gormek are the two most powerful easiest to obtain 1-2-3 punch in the game.
Kiril/ grimm - heal, att up, def up, def down and damage to up to 3.
BT/gormek - heal, attack up,def down, damage up to 3.
BOOM based on how damaged is calculated the only way to make your hits stronger is with elemental def down, which only becomes most effective with mono, or speicalized heroes like miki/wu/tarlack etc.
DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THE IMPORTANCE OF THIS TYPE OF COMBO.

There are 5 healers in S1 4*, and 3 dispellers, plus tib adds in an additional def down combo to use with kiril or bt, and if you add in C rigard then an even powerful combo appears.
There are mana manipulators in chao and Xi and LJ.

The stats of s1 are not as skimpy as one may think
Because LB and costume bonus are percentage based, with LB and CB they have stats similar or superior to newer heroes
The highest possible attack value is 1041 which is Isnarinia CB +20 or C. Elena +20. Followed by C. Isnaria +20 at 1038, Magni CB +20 and Scarlett CB +20 both at 1006 are in the top 15 of highest possible attack values in the game.
LJ and SKittleskull CB +20 LB have better stats then most green 5*

I could do this all day with stats

The S1 specials may be simple and boring to some but they get the job done and are unconditional, making them very reliable

For all these reasons S1 heroes are EXTREMELY relevant in all parts of this game. You don’t need a video maker to tell you that. They are what got many of us through a majority of the game play. Sure new heroes are useful and fun, otherwise noone would want them. But most are icing and sprinkles. A few are game changing and even a couple are OP in certain parts of the game. But it all comes down to the RNG of the tile generation. No matter the stats or the specials, you either get the tiles you need or you don’t.

2 Likes