Are Guin and BK still worth pulling for?

I have long wanted to obtain Guinevere and Black Knight. Alas, Knights of Avalon is coming this week and I have another chance at both. Regarding Guinivere, I’ve always found her to be a nightmare to deal with and would reroll to avoid her. Today, that’s no longer true as I have learned how to deal with her to the point that she’s not an issue 90% of the time.

Black Knight I just think is another amazing hero and I would love to use him offensively in another attack team – similar to how I use Guardian Gazelle.

However, with the imminent release of Season 3 and all the new heroes trickling out, I’m wondering:

  1. Is Guin still the mighty hero she once was?
  2. Are BK and Guin still worth summoning for?

From my personal experience raiding in 2700+, I’m starting to see her less and less. Ursena has pretty much taken over. I don’t know that March’s HoTM will topple Ursena, but she has the potential to reach top 10 tank.

So it’s making it harder and harder to decide whether or not to spend money trying to summon them. I’m at a point in this game where there’s really just four heroes left that I would love to have…

  • Alby
  • GM
  • Guin
  • Finley

… the rest of the heroes just don’t do anything for me and despite all the debate with the last few HotMs, they just are so underwhelming to me and I see no use for them.

2 Likes

Blacky definitely, Guin is still nice and LakeLady is a beast, too.

1 Like

Yes, of course. Actually all of Avalon legendaries are very good

1 Like

The overall answer seems to hinge so heavily on your budget, play style, alternative options, etc. that I don’t know I can meaningfully contribute.

What I think I can speak to is that I 100% agree with you about Guinevere’s presence at the upper end of the Diamond Arena. She’s just not the force she was, pre-emblem (which also excludes heroes like Black Knight and Ursena, as they hadn’t yet been introduced).

I still believe she’s a premiere tank and the best holy tank option, but I no longer think she’s the best overall tank, and I believe her usage reflects that the user base largely agrees.

Black Knight I’m still forming my opinion on.

3 Likes

I’m not in the same boat but I am on the boat right next to you. I only have a handful of heroes I’d like to get from the current field and some of them can be replaced by the new S3 heroes. So now I have become extremely picky with my summons.

As an example, I did a few pulls hoping for Delilah or Poseidon (my Holy 5* roster needs improving) during Atlantis, and ended up with JF instead. I was planning on some pulls during Avalon for BK but since I got JF, disappointing as he is, I decided I’m done for the month. I’ll even save my costume keys and use everything next month for Telluria.

In your case, since you have a shot at Guin, BK, and even JF, I’d say this event is perfect for you.

If I’m not mistaken though, Pirates is next month so Finley and Telluria are also worth it, if not more, so decisions, decisions.

As a side note, I don’t like Guin anymore. She’s outdated as tank and mediocre elsewhere, so I’m not sure she’s worth pursuing at all.

3 Likes

I’ll just come out and say it, Guin is trash now in my experience. She’s the easiest to beat of any common diamond tank for me, and I fear her special the least out of any of them. It’s gotten to the point where I basically never re-roll on Guin regardless of what the rest of the team looks like.

I might just have a great roster to face her, but I can only report on my own experience.

She’s worth maxing only if your alliance uses yellow tanks in war, or if you lack any other top tank options.

BK is still a beast though, IMO.

4 Likes

The problem with Guin as tank now is that there are so many good dark heroes to counter her, and she’s been top tank for so long that most players have lots of experience in how to beat her. She is still punishing to bad boards though.

The other top tanks don’t have that problem yet.

4 Likes

Yep… She’s still a real strong tank, but hero’s like Panther, Kage and Seshat go a long way towards beating her.

2 Likes

I don’t have Guin, but BK has been the single most game-changing hero I’ve got, by a long long way.

Brilliant on defence, awesome in attack.

4 Likes

@solipsism

Ursl Guin is a deadly duo.
Ursl Guin Sesh even more.
Guin is far from trash.
Margie & Atomcancer are trash.

1 Like

Still? Like there was exactly one opportunity to get BK…

Anyway, I will talk about Avalon 5* general:
Morgan Le Fay is considered weakest of the bunch, but she is fast her HP drain heals her and steals HP of enemy. I would ascend her if I got her but I have 12 tonics and only green 5* I have is Elkanen who won’t see any. On the other hand I do have Victor and he seems better to me even if he does not steal HP directly, but he steals healing, adds escalating DoT plus small damage and most importantly defense up and is Very Fast. Still Morgan is imho good, just overshadowed by Guin and Lady of the Lake.

Lady of The Lake - slow, sure, but if she does fire you’re screwed unless you have Vela (maybe, she is weak against Lady of the Lake. Why is Aquatic Conjurer weak against the Lady of the Lake, by the way?). Those minions are awful. I would ascend her more likely than Morgan.

Black Knight - Tank stats and tank skill. He is very annoying to fight and yes, he has still mostly top stats even after five months along with great and unique special. This raid tourney is especially great for him. He would be definitely welcome in any roster, even if you have Queen of Hearts,

Arthur - If you have Frida, maybe he is not worth it, but otherwise that Ice Defense down will find a use. He does also considerable damage.

Guin - still annoying to face, even if Victor outspeeds her and shuts her partly down. Great for defense, usable for anything else. I would ascend her even if she would not see use in war because holy is not our tank’s element.

2 Likes

The fatal weakness I see in Guin is that she doesn’t really punish bad boards in mono. I’ll run 5 purples against Guin. If I get any purple tiles, she’s done right away. If I get a bad board, I’m going to sink a whole lot of empty tiles into her. What does her special do to me there? Cut mana I don’t have? Heal allies that aren’t hurt? The elemental defense up does make her tougher, but she still dies to 6 purple tiles. And after that there are plenty of purple options to dispel the flanks.

Not a bad tank, but she’s a tank specialist that isn’t all that special anymore. Most people who summon often enough to get her will probably happen upon a better tank somewhere.

5 Likes

And even this is mitigated by the fact that the attacker will often bring a Dark Ranger against her and proc Pierce. Seshat, Tiburtus, and Costumed Rigard are all very useful to that end.

1 Like

Raids is one thing… I personally don’t care about raid defense anymore. You lose cups no matter what defense you set up and float around 2600 cups with any decent defense.

But have you fought 25+ Guin tanks in wars? Where you cannot just always take your A+ team like in raids? Imo Guin is still the best war tank there is and hence she’s worth pulling for. :slight_smile:

BK is awesome on offense, definitely worth pulling for as well. Good luck :+1:

10 Likes

This is all awesome feedback… I think my thoughts and feelings are very much in-line with most of this discussion… Guin is still great, but can be countered much more today making her less of a threat. BK is awesome, period. The other heroes in Avalon are solid too, just don’t get the same praise as Guin for obvious reasons.

I think i’ll give this event some pulls and hope for the best. I’ve already set my budget and am going to stick with it regardless. Depending on the results, I’ll either pull again in March or finally take a nice breather from spending and focus again on finishing off all my buildings.

1 Like

Good argument, and I agree. But obviously you need to be in an alliance that uses yellow tanks.

Yes, obviously. :joy: Just for a hero to have and use her as a raid tank, I think Guin is not worth pulling for anymore. In the meanwhile, many other good tanks have been released that do just as well as your raid defense tank and will keep you at a 2600 cup-level. :slight_smile:

However, when you plan on using yellow tanks and possibly in a top100 alliance, she’s definitely worth it imo.

And has 30 members with Guin :slight_smile:

How is this different from 25 Ursena, or Kunchen, or BK tanks?

Please keep in mind that the following arguments are my personal view from my experience in 7DD and everyone can agree or disagree with it. :v:

All 3 heroes are really good tanks (probably amonst top 5), don’t get me wrong.

Kunchen: Yes, he’s beefy. But he’s just too slow to be a top war tank imo. He gives you too much time to work the board and is rather easy to beat, even with a purple team.

BK: Definitely a very good tank and even beefier stats than Kunchen. Bring a dispeller and his special skill (aka his Taunt) is gone. Yes, you might get one attack with 1 damage but that’s about it. Also, blue heroes are probably the strongest heroes in E&P.

Ursena: Very difficult tank indeed. Lots of people struggle against her. Her stats are the least tanky of all 4 heroes tho. She wrecks you on a bad board for sure, that’s what high damage dealing tanks do (so does GM). However, if you get a decent board and she manages to fire once it’s not over (yet). Have a heal ready (ideally a dispeller as well) and you can heal her damage and remove her reflect. Ofc this presumes you get the tiles to charge your healer and dispeller shortly after she fired. Clearing tiles into her is not a good idea. Hence, you should clear tiles into the flanks/corners and charge your heroes that way, if possible. The strategy is to avoid/ignore her as much as possible and don’t send tiles into her. If you bring non-yellows you don’t even have to worry about her reflect.

Guin: Tanky stats. Less tanky than Kunchen and BK, but more tanky than Ursena. The strategy against her is the exact opposite to Ursena. Throw bad tiles into her until you clear the board and it turns to your favor. Yes, she dies with 5 purple tiles. So does Ursena die with 5 yellow tiles tho.
The one thing Guin is superior tho imo is that her special is inevitable (except you bring Seshat or managed to fire Poseidon or Red Hood before she fires). Ursena’s damage can be healed and her reflect can be dispelled or ignored. However, Guin’s mana reduction cannot be dispelled or healed or anything alike - it just hits you.

Mana is a big success factor of each fight. Yes, you can win just by tile damage. But let’s be honest, if you have a board that lets you win just by tile damage the defending heroes don’t matter. You win against anyone if your board is that good. I’ve seen it many times where your heroes are ready to fire and Guin goes off right before that. From there on you’re always one step behind and play catch up if you don’t have a good follow up match to re-charge your heroes before she goes off again.

Yes, I feel comfortable fighting Guin (more than fighting Ursena) because I know how to handle her. Nevertheless, that doesn’t change how punishing and dangerous she is in wars, especially when you have to fight her with off-color teams.

19 Likes

Cookie Settings