Anti dodge heroes needed

Notice how he has ignored your question…

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Which is why I’ve quoted four of the top alliances.

How about a 5th?

Kobyer
21 Frigg
6 C-Kadiken
6 Quenell

So that’s 5 of the best of the best. And every one of them is dominated by Frigg with C-Kadilen a minor presence.

These are alliances that are filled with people willing to spend to get just about any hero they want. And they have shown radical preference for Frigg.

Those are facts…

We are facing a top 20 alliance in war today (they are currently sitting at 20).

Fielding red tanks which means quite a few double green flanks.

This is the count:

Quenell 2
C Kad 4
Francine 2
Frigg 9
C Elkanen 1

Frigg/Francine 1
CKad/Ckad 1
Ckad/Elkanen 2
Frigg/Ckad 8

In total 18 Friggs and 16 C Kads.
When fielding one green only then Frigg is by far the clear winner. With double green flanks Ckad and Frigg together is a very popular combo.

This tells me that C Kad is popular and considered powerful, but second to Frigg. Without the double flanks the C Kad numbers would go down considerably. War defense configurations are a LOT more telling than regular defense configurations.

All dependent on the type of team you field. My all healer + Gulli team totally ignores her special (and all of those heroes apart from Luigi are fairly easily obtainable). Remember that Frigg’s special only defends against specials, and specifically specials that are attacking specials (exluding Guilli). Starve her of specials that work that way and she is impotent.

Factually completely incorrect

Again, factually completely incorrect

Why are you so set on doing something before she goes off? In almost all my matchups she goes of ffirst. And goes off multiple times. And net impact zero on the match.

Except the one major point that was ignored previously. C Kad goes off and you dont have a counter - no impact to you as long as you can survive 3 turns. Frigg goes off and you don’t have a counter - more often than not that is a death sentence, particularly if there are other heroes with specials close to charged up (which there usually are).

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I completely agree. They are just a lot harder to gather. Thank you for pulling the data for you war.

What do your alliance’s defenses look like?

Good question.

We are running purple tanks for the moment, soon to switch to red.

We have:
Kingston 3
Lianna 3
Quennel 3
Frigg 10
Francine 3
C Kad 2
Phineas/Garjammal 1
Phineas 1
Cristobal 1
Eiora & Fluffy 1

I would say it is not a 100% typical defense as it has been skewed a bit more to be damage dealing on account of the equaliser war. Also, some people ran a double yellow defense.

I do know for a fact that more than 2 people in my alliance have C Kad…

@Ian487 @byzanthia Please find 5 friendly matches with the same defense featuring Liz and C Kad. I did friendlies because I had the flags and because I could find the exact defense required to demonstrate. My team is C BT, C Kiril, D’Andre, Luigi, Gullinbursiti. Luigi is hard to get (but widely considered to be slow and rubbish) but the rest are relatively obtainable in relation to other heroes available in this game. Really I should have won all 5, but I fat fingered a swipe in the 3rd match that resulted in missing out on a diamond. Nevermind, close enough.

Please note how many times I triggered C Kad to fire (hint - it was many). She was absolutely the most irrelevant hero in the opposing defense. Not saying that she always is, but I tuned an offense that is a specific COUNTER to her and Liz/Hanna (i.e. heal-based, with Guilli bypassing dodge) without having actual TECHNICAL counters (i.e. fiend counters, dodge counters) and it was extremely effective vs one of the today’s toughest team configurations. Hopefully there is a lesson to be learnt there somewhere.

Edit: a follow up “real” raid if you dont count friendlies

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I’m not sold on the move to red tanks. I think many of the heros that people tank in those cases are better as flanks. But I do get that people have plenty of yellow heros built up to counter the purple tanks…and fewer red counters developed…but otherwise I think purple is still better.

And that’s as someone that doesn’t have any good purple tanks (my best is Seshat) while I have a better red tank (Garnet)!

My alliance has also shown better success (in a small sample size) against red tanks. Overall, we are 52-41 in war this year. We’re 25-22 against purple tanks and 5-2 against red tanks…

Yes, your first vid (haven’t seen the second yet) shows a team of healers. As a whole, it performs well, it stands a good chance against a feind/dodge team, as feinds are healed over and over and there are no specials to miss the target, tile damage does all the hard work. As good as it performs, it misses the point of the thread. Title sais, “Anti dodge heroes needed”, not anti dodge teams. There’s not one hero that does anything about dodge on your team, except for ignoring it. None of your filded heroes is an anti dodge hero and none of them will make a difference against it on it’s own. As great as they perform as a team, they’re not what the OP is talking about. That’s an anti dodge team or solution not a counter hero, you know very well what I mean. As for the feinds, we all know they can be heald, but that has a giant down side: healers that deal with feinds do that at the expense of their main purpose. A fiend counter, in my oppinion, would be more like a hero that does against feinds what Grimble does against minions. The main reason for all this fuss is the fact that dispell can be dodged. If dispell would be a sure thing against dodge, nobody would bother fielding c.Kadilen.

I don’t think it misses the theme of the thread at all. My viewpoint is that anti dodge heroes are NOT needed, because you can easily find counters for dodge heroes (all covered above) and you can quite easily configure a team of fairly easy-to-obtain heroes that will stand a (very) good chance of winning against a team with a dodging hero despite the lack of a specific anti dodge hero.

They ignore it because it is ineffective against them. It makes sense to bring an offensive team that can exploit the weaknesses of the defense. Isn’t bringing a team of heroes that are immune to 90% of a defending heroe’s special in-line with that?

They are dodge-immune heroes - so that is pretty much anti-dodge to me. Why do you keep thinking that you need to reverse the dodge completely to deal with it? Neutering it is just as - if not more so - effective. And each hero that is immune to a particular form of attack has an impact in a battle, with 5 obviously making the biggest impact.

Again, I don’t have to agree with the OP’s premise.

Most heals will still heal 1/3 or more once they remove the fiends. The healers also perform their secondary tasks such as dispel, cleanse, attack or defense up, etc. So one healer casting completely negates the Liz damage + fiends but also invokes their secondary abilities, meaning your special’s net impact over Liz’s is positive. You can also bring more healers, which is what a lot of players do.

In your opinion, sure. Grimble and Skadi are the very best minion counters in the game. But there are others that are not as powerful but still effective enough. Healers are most definitely cheap and easy counters to fiends and also have the great benefit that they can act as pure healers if a fiend counter is not required.

So you want to nerf a hero into extinction?

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Unless you agree with him, you miss the point. That’s the only consistent message I can see in his posts…

He’s either trolling or he is just unable to accept any advice.

Ding! From what I gather, he’s not good at fighting dodge heros and he wants to kill them off rather than learn how to counter and beat them.

Remember… If he doesn’t have the hero, it’s not a legitimate counter…

@TheAcmeSalesRep, you know, you could try adressing me directly, no need for proxy. I don’t bite. Just because our oppinions differ, it doesn’t mean we can’t have a civil conversation. I don’t agree with your view on the matter, you don’t agree with mine, still, I’m not calling you a troll or disconsidering you in any way, like evaluating your gameplay skills, or making unfounded contextual assumptions about you. Can’t you see the tragi-comic aspect of your stance? You’re acusing me of not being able to accept another oppinion, while you’re unable to accept mine, you’re acusing me of trolling while you keep provoking, talking about me as if I wasn’t present… and so on… this kind of attitude brings a sour smile in the corner of my mouth. At least @Homaclese is not one to offend. Even if we disagree (and it’s not the first time), we’re keeping mutual respect. You could learn something from his communication skills. Well, have a nice day and don’t be afraid to adress me whenever you have something to say, no need to quote Homaclese and pretend I’m not in the room…

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I had to go back and read the entire thread… I thought it was you that had called me a troll rather than discuss the issue. I thought it was you that called my factual statements biased while pushing their opinion as fact.

It seems that I have conflated your statements and byzantine’s.

So I apologize for taking that stance against you. Probably 75% of my negativity against your posts has been due to things they said and not you. They started with the attacks and I then pushed them onto you in response.

Again, my apologies for mixing you two together.

Now… I do think you need help in how to oppose C-Kadilen if you are having that much trouble with her. Dodge heros simply annoy, but are really not a big deal to fight if you make small adjustments.

You need to stop dismissing heros that are not 100% effective as not being strong counters. Many heros don’t have perfect counters in a single hero…

As an example…

Sif – to counter her, I use Kage + Seshat. Kage alone is not enough because he leaves the counter on two heros… Seshat alone doesn’t work because she takes the damage on the first hit. But Kage and then Seshat removes it entirely. (I also have Zeline on that team so she can sacrifice to remove the counter if needed…her damage is low enough that she doesn’t usually die unless she was already in critical condition!)

No, WarPig (what I generally call Gullinbursti) doesn’t remove the dodge. But he does massive damage. And it doesn’t take 15 turns to get there as someone (I thought you, but maybe not) said previously…unless the board blows chunks and you’ll lose with pretty much any team in cases like that!

There are many ways to deal with dodge. It’s a nice mechanic, but not really a huge issue.

(It’s a much bigger problem, IMO, on the ninjas where they can dodge as a passive skill.)

Accepted, I’m not one to hold a grudge.

I’ve said before, I have my ways of dealing with her just fine. Malosi is a perfect counter against c.Kadi. 6 tiles fast, shuts her down 100%. However, Malosi is a rare hero not everybody has access to him. You should consider the fact that most players don’t have the same options you have.

Not me, but he does need at least 9 tiles + 4 extra turns to be of use. By then he might be killed and do nothing or the dodge effect might be already over until his damage kicks in.

Since they nerfed target and nereby Sif lost her mojo. I don’t see her as a threat anymore. For sure not on the same lavel with c.Kadi.

Yep, passive dodge or evade is just as bad as skill dodge. It is the main reason that makes Frigg (she was previously part of the conversation) dangerous. There are easier ways to deal with Frigg than with c.Kadi. Defense down can be easily reversed by common heroes, unlike dodge, green tiles can be cleared but there’s no way to deal with evade (well, there’s Russel now, but he won’t kill Frigg in one shot, unless boosted by the likes of Wu or Ranvir. Many times I aimed multiple snipers at Frigg but no hit landed. Dodge (evade) is a real beach…

I disagree. If you don’t have a cleanse or defense up ready, you will get hacked to death, even just by slash attacks.

C-Kadilen can be waited out much more easily.

If my WarPigs charge up at all, it’s very unlikely I will lose. Only Sif or Gazelle counter WarPigs damage.

I don’t think either is a major threat without serious heros around them…and then it’s really the other heros that are the threat.

I really don’t think dodge as a special is that big of a deal. Passive dodge is a real problem.

You realize people have real lives right? The only thing I notice is that you are a troll who brags about constantly beating every single C. Kadilen team with your multiple maxed limit broken emblemed Gullinburstis who magically charge in just three tiles, and feels everyone else is clearly a moron. The malice and bitterness of your sad personality radiates through your every response. You can’t ever post anything normal, it always has to be laced with vitriol to belittle other people. Sad.

It’s so obviously a red herring to keep your own personal overpowered C. Kadilen defense overpowered. No worries though, I’m 100% sure that there will be an anti-dodge hero in the foreseeable future and your tears will be delicious.

I was just spectating today but you can’t accept people are trying to help.

@TheAcmeSalesRep is certainly not trolling, he and @Homaclese have (in my opinion) tried their hardest to be patient and give you sound advice.

I wish you well in your journey, this topic you created is not going anywhere, whether any of us like it or not.

I’m not going to participate any more with this subject. I’ll return to E&P a game I enjoy and as much as we all tried this subject is not giving me anything positive.

For me this subject is closed.

LOL, I love responses ike this. “Oh my all healer and Gullinbursti team ignores her.” or “My triple maxed embled limit broken Gulliburstis ignore her.”

And fiend and minion makers now have counters. C. Kadilen has none. That’s a fact, not “factually incorrect” because you can think of one niche hero in a very specific comp that happens to be able to hit heroes who have dodge active. Every other hero can’t, dispel is affected by dodge, and there is no counter.

Anyway, I am certain they will make a few heroes with preventing and/or removing dodge as part of their special in the future. But the people trying to defend the current state of the game when it comes to dodge so clearly have an agenda to keep their dodge hero OP.

I don’t even have C-Kadilen. The only dodge hero I own is C-Little John and I haven’t ever used him.

But good try. Troll on…

Yeah, ridiculing and posting vitriol-laced rants is “trying to help.” Sure…

No, it’s an opinion. You don’t understand the definition of the word fact…

“you just need help with how to play”

“You need a LOT of help in how to play”

“You clearly don’t understand what “counter” means”

“If you don’t agree, you don’t now how to use him.”

“If it takes you 15 moves, you are not very good at manipulating the board.”

“You don’t understand the definition of the word fact…”

Malice, bitterness, and trolling. It’s all you have.