Another Attempt to Punish Mercs....Here We Go Again!

[sleeperZ96BT]

For the record - I have never merc’d. We have had one single merc come visit us who hit a titan and he happened to be in 7DD. He was super helpful, very polite (ID’d that he was mercing, asked if it was ok, and even said bye after the loot) etc. I’m almost certain other merc’s have visited but they peace out quickly as it’s usually not a good time for them (idle titan or almost dead or something). Honestly that is very annoying. It’s stopped entirely since the alliance list got screwed up or else I’d be we’d see more visits given where we are.

For those that merc or that are known to merc, are you guys and gals in a normal alliance like a majority of the base or are you guys in the top 100/elite (again in most cases)?

A bit rhetorical, but if they gave you no loot for mercing would you still do it? I appreciate @revelate being blunt and calling a spade a spade - it has to be about the loot or else there would be far, far less doing it and while I agree there is value to it in the community, I also feel like that value is likely isolated and not pervasive - I saw probably 100 pop ins and outs for the one merc that helped us learn.

So why don’t you try and work with SGG on solving the problem, which appears to be losing flags, in a constructive manner? If I am mistaken as to what the issue is please correct me.

[Checker]

Problem is mercs and SG came to an agreement about 9-10 months ago, Now they are going back on their word.

[Revelate]

@Checker

Problem is mercs and SG came to an agreement about 9-10 months ago, Now they are going back on their word.

You can’t really look at it like that bud; ultimately SG will make constant tweaks if they believe it’s for the benefit of the game.

It wasn’t an agreement of equal sides per se, or any contractual arrangement, just SG realized that you were right and they were wrong at that point in time, so they tried to address it in an equitable fashion. Similar recent issue, cup dropping vs. Diamond loot: a pretty clear change was indeed made, doesn’t go far enough imo but it is better than it was and that also was likely a direct result of player feedback.

We’re now what, 9 months on from the titan chest timer change? The game has changed, SG has probably changed, and I suspect the merc community has changed somewhat… I have no idea what or why this particular change was triggered, but it’s well within SG’s right to do it and if they legitimately feel it’s a game balance issue, then they should absolutely do it.

Athena has been nerfed what, effectively 4 times? 5? Bad at math see above. Didn’t mean after the first one that more weren’t possible and indeed actually happened, the same is true here. Similarly just because AW loot was buffed once, doesn’t mean it might not happen again, again for the good of the game.

I don’t see the what happened back in Juneish regarding mercing being any different than that: SG did what was right for the game as they saw it back then, and they’ve decided that something else is right for the game now.

ETA: it’s almost a guarantee they will read this thread tomorrow if they haven’t already, they may change their minds, it’s happened before and 1.12 hasn’t even hit beta yet… and they really need to test this one as frankly people that have been in a single alliance for longer than I’ve been playing got reduced loot and that’s broken.

[Elpis]

Is it one thing or another, the question is: is mercing a problem at all?

For who? The game? The players who see people popping in and out? Developers?

Because it’s like it was not a problem before, but now it is.
And honestly, i don’t really see the difference.

[anon80371759]

Pretty much how i feel. Why rock the boat? This has been non issue for 9 to 10 months. So why now?

[Basilisk]

My two cents is…I very rarely merc, just never seems to line up when we pass on a titan, but I have. I tend to do it as a form of help vs an attempt to get ascension items, like paying it forward, we would have lost many a titan in the past if it wasn’t for the fact we could call for help. Some of the people that came were quite, nothing more than a “hi guys, I’ll see what I can do”, and some joined us!
I’ve met more awesome people by calling for help, and on more than 1 occasion. I understand that higher level players are your basic merc, kinda silly to do it if your not well developed, and usually you could learn a thing or three with the experience.
I don’t think that this will stop mercs, might hinder the ascension items, but that’s about it, and if your trying to build up 5*’s…that kinda sucks! It’s extremely hard to get the rarest items, and who doesn’t want to get them built up, the heroes alone are difficult to get!
I think the fact hiding underneath this issue is the same as it’s always been…the ascension items are hard to accumulate, and this was a minor means to that end.
That’s definitely more than two cents!

[Brobb]

@BOHICA

It’s not unfair if all players have the opportunity to do it. Anyone can merc, SG is the only party that is being unfair.

@BOHICA

This change only effects those that merc,how could it not be characterized as being singled out.

Well you can’t have it both ways. Either mercing is something anyone can do, in which case SG isn’t singling anyone out, or mercing is an activity for only a few players, in which case SG is picking on them.

Wow - you really tripped over your own feet there, in consecutive posts. I’ve never seen that before.

[Brobb]

@Revelate

And it is substantially increased loot: nobody who is rational should equate giving up the titan chest for what some people were doing and getting between 12 and 18 bites at an ascension item every, single, day. That’s between 45 and 90 ascension items in a given 5 day window… on my main I’m basically in the best possible non-merc situation I can get: and I only get 17 chances, vs. 60 worse case.

Never having merced or used mercs I must say I had no idea the impact on collecting ascension materials. I never thought it through properly - I guess I assumed you might pick up an extra roll or two each week. So this analysis is a surprise to me. I have some thoughts as a reaction.

1. Kudos to all the mercs for taking advantage of this opportunity while it lasted. You’ve been generating a massive advantage for yourselves. Good on you!

2. It is immediately totally bleeding obvious why SG has changed the rules. If @Revelate’s numbers are right, then that is a laughably huge boost over the ascension item rolls one collects when not mercing - and ‘not mercing’, we know, is how SG intended the game to be played. Even if @Revelate’s numbers are off by a factor of two, that is still a ridiculous boost. Again, kudos to those who took advantage.

3. In this context, it takes some chutzpah to be indignant about this. If you’ve been doubling your Titan ascension rolls by mercing, you probably ought now to be sitting back, smoking whatever you like to smoke, drinking whatever you like to drink, smiling and feeling satisfied about how well you did while this situation lasted. I raise my glass to you. But if you want to complain that you think you’re being treated unfairly…? No. Just no. All sympathy I had for any feeling of injury has disappeared entirely.

[Talisax]

I would still merc, I hate wasting resources, plus it is fun to interact with others and share advice

But I won’t merc with nerfed loot plus neefing my home totan loot. I’d merc for nothing, but not at a detriment to myself

[Revelate]

@Elpis

ause it’s like it was not a problem before, but now it is.
And honestly, i don’t really see the difference.

Can’t say it wasn’t a problem before, only SG is now aware of the issue… or I should say some issue as I’m not entirely certain I understand the rationale either other than if ascension items are supposed to be equitably distributed at a given rate, then mercing breaks that design.

Same thing happened with the multiple rounds of Athena nerfs (and one buff): each time they thought it was fixed, some period of time passes, oops newp, tweak again.

I don’t really know what the answer is here, like some others I’m a little skeptical of the timing… 9 months is longer than I’ve been in game, and it’s just now noticed? The difference was readily noticed months ago by the player base, and no action was taken then.

On the flipside even the average merc (and I’ve had some roll through my alt’s various alliances who frankly hit softer than my alt did) roughly doubles the ascension drop chance of people in equivalent alliances, doing equivalent damage on titans, etc ad naseum, the conclusion is inescapable: if you want loot, go merc.

SG would like us to stop cup dropping: so changes were made, raid tiers, then ham was increased in Diamond and maybe elsewhere.

SG would like us to stop mercing: so, this.

I do get it from a game design perspective: they want cups to matter, they want alliances to matter… so they’re trying to encourage that. Whether that’s good for the game vis a vis the community, I really don’t know on this one: usually I have some idea of how changes will pan out, I really don’t here.

That said even if everyone who has ever merced, including yours truly, up and walked out in protest, I don’t think it’d matter to the game or the community long-term… there’s plenty of compelling content and community here without mercing and I strongly suspect it will still be here after 1.12 drops (assuming their decision doesn’t get reversed like last time).

[BOHICA]

No I didn’t step over my own feet, you didn’t pay attention to what was said. Instead you gave the normal condescending smarta** brobb reply.

Mercing is available to all but those that play yet sg is singling out those players that do merc and are punshing them for it.
Seems pretty straight forward to me.

[Revelate]

@Talisax

I would still merc, I hate wasting resources, plus it is fun to interact with others and share advice

But I won’t merc with nerfed loot plus neefing my home totan loot. I’d merc for nothing, but not at a detriment to myself

Well we don’t know what the timer is. I don’t know what Spicy’s kill time is I assume it’s pretty analogous to Departed’s… From 3/2 (I fubared 3/1) to 3/23 this is what ours looks like:

There’s a window in there especially on everything except maybe Kraken and Emp (didn’t realize Emp was now taking us longer than Kraken this month, that’s new) where you in particular being a member of a speedily killing alliance, might be able to still get a few flags in elsewhere… we just don’t know how the change is implemented.

Also not all mercs have a home alliance, many do not from what I’ve observed as AW isn’t enough to get all of them to find a spot… although I’d note that’s also a loot decision as the only rationale posted has been “AW loot sucks.”

Ultimately both of us have been through this before, SG changes, we adapt. Won’t be the last time either.

[Brobb]

You’re twisting yourself in knots. If mercing is an option that is available to all then by banning it SG is making it unavailable to all, not just unavailable to those who merc. That’s nothing like singling anyone out, is it?

(I think you might already understand this and are just pretending to be obtuse.)

[Pops]

I’ve seen video of you guys taking down a Titan in an hour or less with not everyone hitting. So you’re fine with your other members just sitting there and eating their flags for hours because some other players got a small amount of extra loot???

Mercing isn’t killing the game and it never has. The compromise was fine. Again I’m not a merc anymore but when I was I barely got unfarmable ascension items. Did I have extra chances yes that’s not something that I will deny but everyone else had the same opportunity.

I understand SG wants it to be harder to get stuff so they try and nerf everything so people have to grind more. I understand there logic they don’t want everyone super powered just the ones that pay. Backing it harder to get stuff means people are more willing to pay when they sell the items.

[BOHICA]

Banning? Where did I say that?

Merc is open to all, those that choose to merc are being singled out and having their loot diminished.

I’m done with this conversation, you are nothing more than a troll to anyone you don’t agree with. Have a good night.

[Cthulhu]

Silly nerf that didn’t need to be done, not surprised in the least. Show me a post in the last 6 months where someone complain about a merc or what they offer to the community…im waiting on you SG, please do justify this so i can laugh at McScrooge.

[Branwen]

So right!, so many complaints, nothing done about them, and they go and mess up sometng no one is complaining about.

[Bahahahahaha]

We can go around in circles forever using very select numbers as an example. I wonder how many mercs only hit 8* or higher titans AND only use 1 hit. Which still should put them at the very bottom or near the bottom of the loot tier. It’s far more common for alliances to be asking for help with 7* or more commonly even lower titans and they need multiple hits to kill the titan. Sure the perfect jobs pop up, but we can’t use those rare occurrences as the standard when making comparisons.

I keep hearing about this huge competitive advantage…where is the proof? I look at the leader board and certainly see old school mercs with some decent teams, myself included. However, I see far more people who have never merc’d. The common denominator is the fact that we’ve all spent money…thats what has given use the advantage, period!

There are far bigger issues that should be being focused on versus this complete none issue that is just a distraction from the real problems…

[Revelate]

@Pops

I’ve seen video of you guys taking down a Titan in an hour or less with not everyone hitting. So you’re fine with your other members just sitting there and eating their flags for hours because some other players got a small amount of extra loot???

Mercing isn’t killing the game and it never has. The compromise was fine. Again I’m not a merc anymore but when I was I barely got unfarmable ascension items. Did I have extra chances yes that’s not something that I will deny but everyone else had the same opportunity.

I understand SG wants it to be harder to get stuff so they try and nerf everything so people have to grind more. I understand there logic they don’t want everyone super powered just the ones that pay. Backing it harder to get stuff means people are more willing to pay when they sell the items.

We’ve been doing that for something like 6 months now since we started on 10*'s streaking.

Not everyone wants to merc, though I think I’ve been pretty clear that I’m ambivalent towards this change as I merc on my alt but I can see SG’s perspective with regards to fairness to the vast majority of players… which I’m sorry to say, is not mercs.

[Muddykins]

I have an alliance. Two in fact. In both, everyone participates, and sometimes we kill fast, at times we have to stop to restock, sometimes we need a tiny boost from a merc… For most, I’d guess alliance titan level doesn’t matter in that regard.

So, I personally choose to pay into the game, put in my grind to level and have extra flags that SG decided the timer on themselves… now, I personally decide to use what’s given to me and do the extra work by mercing elsewhere, because I want to… why should that be limited?
Everyone has this choice. There is absolutely no unfair advantage. The only difference is, not every one wants to.