An Open letter to the DEVS regarding nerfing Heroes


#1

Dear game moderators and legal department. i hereby announce you that what is going on in the game is not acceptable. i have payed quite a lot of real money for gems in order to get MAGNI and HELL and ATHENA,… anf all of them have been nerfed drastically. You are currently sold an item that doesnt exist anymore, i payed for something that was modified, that making the transaction worthless. i hereby also announce that i would like have a friendly chat with someone from ur legal department since this is called FRAUD in any civilised country. Making people, no even better, trapping people in buying things that get modified after 3-4 weeks or in athena’s case 11-12 days is completly unacceptable. i want the money back, specifically the money i spend on Purple and BLUE hero draws and also the money i spend in July trying and getting Athena. The Athena and Magni and Hell i payed for no longer exist, but my money still exists in your acount so that said i expect a complete REFUND!! u can also take the heroes back from the account, they are not worth it anymore. i do not want GEMS REFUND, since i dont need the gems, and i dont expect you to pay me back the gems/money i spented on other items as Refills or items draws. the other possible acceptable solution would be to revert the HEROES, ALL HEROES, allready bought by players ( i am talking here about mine, but there are definetly a lot more players here that are not happy with the game you are playing, with releasing really good heroes then making them worthless, just so that you can cash in money ), and then change the heroes that would be gained from now on , on any future Hero-Draws . i must inform also that if my problems are not resolved i will have to take other measures to get my money back. i am not a kid spending papa’s money so i would ask you to take me seriously. my ingame name is Oldies but Goldies

p.s. this is ment for the devs, it is not posted as a forum were any1 can write an oppinion. if u agree with me and would like to support me, if u feel cheated by the way this is gooing, pls just post something like : i agree and would like a refund also . if u have another oppinion pls do not post it, i respect any oppinions and i am an open person, but this is a complain. we can talk about anything else in another thread, let just let this one for ppl who would also like to get they money back. thank you very mutch and best regards


Critical Chance vs. Attack Boost
#2

A couple of points here. First and foremost, if you make a post in public, you can expect anyone who wants to comment on it to do so, with whatever they’d like. A disclaimer doesn’t absolve you of negative opinions posted in public, as this is no more than an opinion in itself.

That being said, I do agree on a lot of the points here. At best, the SG development staff has shown a gross incompetence in regards to releasing overpowered heroes, only to soon (after turning a solid profit) alter them to a point they’re unrecognizable compared to the original version. At worst this is, as you say, carefully calculated deceptive marketing. Either way, in my mind, as a spender and a 6 month veteran of this game, it’s unacceptable. If new heroes are going to be released then they need to be rigorously tested first. It almost seems as if they were just thrown into the mix with a cavalier attitude of “this looks like it might work!”. The amount of effort some have put in, not just in acquiring heroes, but painstakingly ascending heroes, only to have them “corrected” with a simple forum post brushing it off as a casual readjustment is kind of disgusting. That’s potentionally hundreds of dollars and months of work.

I’ve been gaming since I was 15. This is not my first encounter with a nerf. I understand their value and necessity in balancing the game. But the manner and frequency with which it’s being done absolutely feels like theft by deception. That’s not the way to keep an active player base. I would implore someone from SG to respond to this post. Currently as it stands, I’m pretty sure no one over there even sees this as an issue.

Edit: From a legal standpoint in regards to your the issue of getting your money back, I would encourage you to thoroughly view the terms of service here: http://www.smallgiantgames.com/terms-of-service/

Tl;dr - Small Giant owns the game. The accounts. The Heroes. The gems. They can do anything they want with them anytime they want. You agreed to these terms when you downloaded the game.

Tough pill to swallow, but they all do this to cover themselves against things like this. Sure, maybe you could get a lawyer and litigate this, but it would cost you far more time, money, and effort than you’ll ever receive back. You’re better off contacting your respective App Store and disputing the charge.


#3

Both of you make great points and I agree!!! It should be spread as much as possible. I wrote this in a similar post:

I realize that there is a constant battle between making the game challenging, and keeping it fun and interesting. Too easy, and you lose people because it’s too easy. Too hard and you lose people because it’s… too hard. I have no idea as to what the process is or how difficult it is, so I won’t beat up the devs too bad on that, because it must be a delicate balancing act.

Where I do have an issue is with what is essentially a bait and switch of Athena. I had Li when she got nerfed. To me it wasn’t a big deal. She’s essentially “among the pack” that you can expect in the 4* range. I understand that from time to time some changes must be made to keep the balance, but to make a hero so alluring that people spend money (I bought three 10 packs of elemental) to attain her, only to have her stripped of her strength is a scam. It’s like buying a Corvette, taking it in a week later for a recall repair, only to find out the recall was that they put a Prius engine in your pricy sports car.

Why are the consumers/customers being punished because the devs didn’t properly test their product prior to release???


#4

It is pretty common practice in games to balance stuff afterwards when notice that something was release that wasn’t balanced.

Hel hasn’t even been nerfed afaik.

Atthena was stupid, I did a 100k hit on titan with her. She had to be nerfed.

I doubt the idea was to lure people to buy and then nerf, but I think they should test those heroes better before releasing them.


#5

Sorry ppl, but all of you make same mistake. YOU CAN’T BUY HERO. You only buy the crystals-pack. And you have got yours crystals. Do you? That’s all.


#6

@Ykcyc I’m not exactly sure what you are exactly trying to say, but I think this is what you were trying to say. We bought the gems, not the hero. What we got with what we spent we shouldn’t complain about. Right? If not, please correct me because it wasn’t clear.

But if that was what you were saying, here’s a counter analogy: You buy a lottery ticket. Buying it, in itself, doesn’t guarantee anything. Then you hit all numbers!!! Jackpot!!! Then you go to collect your massive winnings only to be given something much less. No matter what the amount you recieve, you have been cheated out of what you were promised.


#7

In regards to hel, she wasn’t nerfed in the common sense of the word. Originally(the first two weeks she was released) her special didn’t just stop heroes from gaining mana for 3 turns, it also stopped any impending specials in their tracks. That’s why I was careful to use the word altered. It’s an important distinction. I was happy to give that up to them simply making a mistake and fixing it, although a pattern of more malicious intent could be argued.

But you said it yourself, Athena HAD to be nerfed. That’s the point. It was blatantly clear the first time anyone ever used her just how overpowered she was. Somehow the entirety of their staff missed that. She should have never been released in that state to the player base having either undergone absolutely zero testing, or deliberately to draw people in. There’s no innocent shrug off for them in this one.


#8

I agree Athena was unbalancing and therefore a nerf was warranted: I wasn’t rolling for her but did wind up pulling her and saw how good she was. In general, if you have one card that sticks out, fix that card… that’s far easier from a balancing perspective than to increase everything else: new baselines are hard and they risk unbalancing the rest of the game. I do know from second hand experience a ton of analysis goes into such things (I work a gaming company many have probably heard of).

My issue is there doesn’t seem to be a lot of play testing going on: first the large cascade issue on Athena was blatantly missed, and then the large scale reduction to make her non-trivially weaker in the more statistically likely average to ugly board. It’s was undoubtably the fastest method of resolution, but it was a sloppy, heavy-handed implementation.

I hope the developers are sophisticated enough to look at the data after the debuff: I could well be mistaken after having played a few rounds in various things with her but realistically a cap on the number of debuffs applied and a somewhat higher debuff amount than 2% would go a long way to not only balancing her but restoring her to something more workable… or a non-trivial buff of the base debuff would be my recommendations towards trying to improve things from the current state which seems to be a little awkward from my layman’s perspective.


#10

Under the gameplay and tactics topic there is a thread called Athena debuff. This is the post I made there.

With the new Athena Nerf, she is completely worthless. She is weak, too easily killed, and now has a special that might, might increase to 49% defense loss, if you’re lucky.
I paid good money in an attempt to obtain her. She is now worthless, just a collectors item to sit on a shelf and gather dust. A special character, only available for one month. And now not worth the paper it’s printed on. Grimm and Magni are way better choices now.
I will no longer spend hard earned money on monthly characters that are promised one thing and stripped away later, After I’ve gone through so much trouble to get one. Had she been released with her current special, I never would have even tried to get one.
I would like a refund on the money I have spent to buy your now worthless “monthly hero” and I strongly encourage other owners of this “garbage Athena” and her useless special, please respond with your thoughts and feelings about this terrible rape of your pocket books.
How many more times are you going to give something good, make a tidy sum of money from it, and then pull it out from under us as punishment for “using a too powerful character” Why in the hell is she even a limited edition character. She at best is a rare or epic character… Nowhere near being worth calling her “legendary”.
Again, I’d like my money back please, you promised something good, and snatched it from our hands like taking candy from a baby. You should be ashamed of yourselves


#11

I understand the argument of I paid for the crystals not for the character. However I would not have bought those crystals without the promise of a chance to obtain that character. Had she been released as she is now, those crystals would not have been purchased. Instead, they would be held until next month to see if that character was any good. I am not against the very low odds that are in place for obtaining these special monthly characters. I am however against the devs for not testing these characters before releasing them. Yes Athena was overpowered against Titans however the Debs should have known that, and made the necessary adjustments before her release. Not just throw her out there and see what happens.
It has been said that this was a scam set up on purpose by the devs to draw attention to the potential powerful results of this special attack. Once an acceptable amount of money rolled in of people buying the crystals they needed to take the chance to obtain this character, the character was changed to meet the standards of normal gameplay originally set forth by the Developers.
It has been suggested that this is a commonly practiced marketing gimmick. Whether it is or not is not my place to say. However I will say this, I am sadly disappointed in your behavior as professional video game developers.
Whether it’s your dirty tactics to Milk Money out of those who wish to thoroughly enjoy your game or it is simply that you are so incompetent to have tested these characters prior to their release. Either way, I am a thoroughly dissatisfied customer. I expect to be compensated either for your snake oil salesman tactics or your serious inability to provide the public with quality merchandise. Even if that merchandise is intellectual property, it is still something we have paid for and expect a certain amount of quality for our hard-earned money that we have now entrusted to you for our entertainment purposes.
I asked that the problem be fixed as soon as possible. If you will not fix the problem then I hope you see fit out of common decency to compensate those who have bought your diamonds under false pretenses.
You advertise and promised a new product which you have now essentially recalled. If I buy a product that is later recalled, I would expect compensation of something of equal value for your lack of planning. It is unacceptable to Simply say, " you willingly gave your money to us. In return We Supply you with shoddy workmanship and empty promises, we will keep your money, you get crap in return, better luck next time."

My name is Dirty, and I speak for those who are sadly disappointed after obtaining your broken promise.


#12

I knew one was coming for Athena, even agreed it should a little bit. I said I won’t even be mad I get it. Well, you’ve managed to annoy me yet again E&P. This was way too much of a change on a hero your players spent 100s to get.

During my entire time playing this you’ve shown me again and again that you just love to get people spending on things only to turn around and make everything they’ve put money, time, and resources into completely and utterly useless.

I’ve said it before, not another dime from me, and then fell for it again to get Athena and one of the new green 5* heroes (Kadilen… What a joke… Seriously the only thing she is good for is not dying quickly. Thanks for that). Fool me once shame on you, twice shame on me. This time you’ve truly been boycott and I hope others will follow suit.


#13

My english is not as good as yours, so I will write a little.
I totally agree with oldiesbutgoldies.
We paid for those heroes and did it because they had certain features, modifying them (worsening them a lot) is a fraud.
I’m also here to ask for my money back and let you know that you will not see others, of course.


#14

Not a lot I can say that hasn’t already been said.
But I want to add my voice.

I feel like you create “magical” heroes to entice people to spend. But as a friend has said it becomes a typical bait-&-switch tactic to screw over every person who has invested in gems & used them to obtain these incredible heroes.

You need to invest more in testing before releasing these heroes. It is not fair nor reasonable to release them only to say “whoops, we messed up” and nerfing them after basically conning lots of people out of their hard earned money trying to obtain them.

This tactic of yours is getting old & it’s changing how people feel about the game.

Although I wonder if you care… You’ve lost so many of your historic players already because of MANY repeated situations like this.

But with lots of people still joining to try the game you probably don’t care about those of us who have been around for a while as you have a regular influx if innocent potential victims joining all the time.

As a business - I get it a you want $. But a real (non-digital) business would have a really hard time keeping afloat if they treated their clientelle like this.

Artemis
(Leader: Thirsty Beavers)
(Player since early March 2017)
(Was a paying player but don’t see the point in paying any more)


#15

I’m on board with that boycott as well. I have lost all faith in the devs ability to maintain a reliable balance in this game. Not only that; the sheer nonchalantness of their “fix” post. This issue is not a one off, and it’s not a small matter. You cannot continue doing this. It’s clearly shaken the trust of the majority of the E+P player base irrevocably to the core. Until I hear a clear, concise solution to the current abomination as well as a meaningful way forward from here, I can’t justify spending money on this game.


#16

The leader of Dslayers wanted her thoughts posted as well though doesn’t use the forums. I agreed to screen what she said and send it.


#17

Continuation for Duhlittle


#18

I would like to put in my word. I have been one of the biggest spenders in this game, but you have lost my business now due to the sheer lack of falsifying what you are trying to sell.


#19

Also in this form a read the part about that special deal back in last month was given to people who spend but have not spend money in a while to intise them to spend again so i am thinking if i do not spend anymore money for a long time you will offer me a 2.99 great deal to spend again wow then i need to not spend any more money on this game any more . If thats the case.


#20

Long-time player, first-time commenter - not that you shouldn’t have already received this message loud and clear, but, as a communications professional specializing in small business, B2B, and corporate relations, you consistently have testimony after testimony stating that you as developers are failing in a major business category: customer/client retention and engagement.

Through evidence of your actions and releases (as well as silent fixes), alongside the constant negative feedback from the game’s beta testers and pioneers, it’s clear that this application is here for the short-game and quick money.

Extremely unfortunate for 2 reasons: first, you have a great foundation here for something that could be long-lasting and the community that has grown organically has the ability to support you financially for a long time. And second, and more importantly, you reveal a lack of integrity and business ethics that will damage your company for years to come. The short-sighted business fails within 5 years, which is why they all frantically scheme and plot to make as much money as they possibly can within that time frame. You have aligned yourself with those kind of developers.

There is no quick fix for a situation like this as you’ve already dug yourself quite a hole, what I’d like to see from you in a short period of time is an effort to incorporate market feedback into your product. You achieve this by including users in decisions made to positively affect gameplay, as well as foster genuine relationships with the people who pay you good money.

For the interim you need to quickly come up with a customer service response for your repeated blunders, which we all know will continue even if you plan to change your habits.

As a long-time player I have now lost money in an Athena investment, I have lost the time it took to plan around that investment, but MOST importantly, I am losing community friends who are leaving the game due to your inconsiderate attitude towards gameplay updates, and your constant incompetence in market and development research.

This entire chain is not an attack on nerfing heroes, we all play these games, we’re all used to our favourite characters being changed for the good of the game.

This conversation is really about your marketing & sales pitches to users, and how they are not mutually beneficial when you sell something with value and then remove said value. You need to be more forthcoming about your obvious mistakes, and you need to put plans in place for returning that value to us.

I hope for the sake of this community, we can count on you to do that.

This consultation just cost you 10,000 gems.

End of line.


#21

Wow that sum up the whole thing