Alliance Wars Matchmaking (Discussion & Developer Response) MASTER

Level and depth of bench is seen from the start of the game…

No really low players have the same bench as a 40… let me add unless they have spent thousands… But even then most would say that takes actual game play to build a bench of 30 fullly leveled hero’s
Excluding extremes… This is a normal aspect of the game.
The more you play the more you level…the more you level, the more the average player, adds more leveled or usable hero’s.

So your basic assertion boils down to Player 1 here must have a significantly deeper bench than Player 2, because he is 7 levels and however many million xp higher, right?

Player 1:

Player 2:

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So they only had 20 people against your 25?

No they at the time had 27 actually and so did we but faced off at 23

They had 5 below 2900 defense but fielder only one of them in the actual war… I think we fielded 7-8… was last week Wednesday war, so I’m going from memory only… Yet I recall those parts… but not the guys/ girls name… Started with s was like 3rd 4th from bottom stayed in… offering 4 within the 3100 or lower 3 of those looked easy. So that’s why I recall a bit of it.

No Garanyn… Not at those levels as they level up in far lower #’s the 300k range…
Lowers jump by far less…

It shifts from the 350’s at the 40
To at lvl 58 it’s like 750k

So it starts to add up really really fast as it’s 2 to one at 350k vs 750k going up from there…

If your going to match a 40 you must go to a comparison of a lvl 1 to see the same gap…

So yes I’m saying a lvl 40 will have a better bench than a level 1 due to the experience…

Exactly as it would from 40 to 58 is equal to 40 to 1 as both gap at 9 million in experience…

Your example spreads the gap by less than 2 million. I’m giving you photos of multiple matches of 4- 8 million per player match x up to 8 players in a single match. In the very top matches…

We apparently have insane lower benches… or it matches as I’ve explained previously, using bundles of un-developed, hero’s in our lower tiers.

We don’t see a 2 million gap in the one till like 8 matches in…

If you read my last post it gets to what I’m getting at in the lopsided experience points and how it leads to a consolidation of power…

Here is the actual #’s needed to see when a level actually doubles another level in experience…

So a level 58 has played almost 2x that of a 40…

It may help understand the imbalance it could cause in actual power, vs undeveloped power.

Ok I have a few questions. Can you easily point me to some of your earlier posts when your showing pictures of your matchups? Idk how easy it is for you to find ur posts in here but I cant find anything on my phone it so buried.

Next question is are your top 30 heroes leveled at least a little? 3* 2nd ascension or roster so small it counts feeders? What about your alliance members?

Do you get the part where when you constantly throw out "power consolidation " and constant bench depth, can we agree that a player with more and or higher leveled bench heroes…has a higher individual war score, and should not be matched up vs you for example. Unless your alliance mate has a stronger bench than your opponents thus bringing war score back to even.

Do that for all 30 players…and If they are that deep, you wont face them as thier war score should be much higher

This argument just doesn’t hold water. The gap between level 34 and level and level 41 is 3.5M xp. This is almost the same gap as between level 1 and level 30, which is 3.6M xp.

So based on your logic, the lvl 41 in that pair should be as far ahead of the level 34 player as a level 30 player is ahead of a level 1 player. Can you, with any seriousness, look at those two and argue that the level 41 has the better roster? Or even an equal roster? Let alone a better roster by the gap that exists between level 1 and level 30…

Looking at those two pictures should make very clear why that argument is nonsensical.

You keep arguing that level is some magical thing that creates an insurmountable gap between players. It just isn’t.

Between two players who both spend a lot, level is a meaningful differentiator. But between players who don’t spend tons of cash, luck is by far the bigger factor. And when considering f2p/c2p vs p2w, level difference is effectively meaningless.

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Yes I can agree that I don’t think everyone looks at the bench the same…
in that 6 2* feeders is exactly the same as having a maxed 5* Richard as far as the game sees it in a match…
as they are of almost the exact same power…
That’s really all the game measures at the end of the day…

So the bench should be looked at in different lights, one is built of fighters, while a pool of another can be made up of a group of food… Those 2 then fight…

I am limited on what I’ve posted or took photos of…
Honestly I had no clue what I was seeing was not obvious to everyone…

But I realize now that most people responding are on far more developed alliances… So they see no issues as the odds of them getting doubled in experience throughout an entire match is nill…

For those carrying one 40, a few 30’s and lowers… a couple 49-56 quickly doubles the team experience and therefore the development of the bench.

Garanwyn do the math on the photo I gave above… 49, 47, 46, 43, 40…

Till they match me at the highest a 40…
add that up if you feel like joining us in facts.

We using actual math now… So you can direct your assumptions elsewhere.

It’s math…
it’s potential development,
It’s common sense…

Same old F2P VS P2P, story over and over… We get it already.
That runs both ways, and they use the same players as I do…
I could care less who they have, I only care about what I see in the math, that then reflects into what we see in a match.

So there’s still room to care less? Not rock bottom yet?

Kidding, of course.

I wish I could join your alliance for a week to just observe and participate and see how it plays out. I know 6 2*=1 5* TP wise. So player A has TP 750 with 6 of 30 heroes. Player B has TP 750 using 1 hero. Points estimated. Now what happens to that TP when you add player As 23-17 ranked TP heroes to 750? They prob still weak as last 6 are trainers. Well say they partly leveled and add another 1k.

Player A has 14 heroes equal 1750 player B has 1 more full 5* player B has 2 heroes and now TP1500.

Remaining heroes for both avg 450 TP each.

Player A remaining 16 equal 7200 TP

PLAYER A TOP 30 WAR SCORE=TP8950
PLAYER B 28 remaining heroes =12,600

PLAYER B HAS TOP 30 WAR SCORE=14,100 TP

Now like you always say spread that across 30 alliance members and… alliance A score 268,500.
Alliance B score 423,000.

268,500 is not equal to 423,000 and therefore these will not be pitted against each other.

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yes and I’m sure at times that’s how it works but at others it happens as you see in the matches I’m showing you…

Where one team is very powerful up top… The other is of equal power only in #, and not in development…

So it is 14k vs 14k…
but one team has 10k of the 14k heavily weighted at the top. And has no garbage in the mix, as their team is advanced in development…
They have filled all the 30 measured spots with quality…

While the other team with lower level players must keep the empty Riguard to develop later… 2 empty 4* is paired to the full 5*

Now do that to 1/3 of the team…

That’s easy to see happening as it’s par for the course that a level 25 is saving every 4 they get…
meanwhile par has a level 55 eating 4s for lunch and capping his 12th 5

Both meeting at the 14k power total in a really bad mismatch like the ones I keep seeing.

You keep filling out the match so the final power does not match…

Start in reverse and have them match…
then power team a with 70% of the power in the first 8 matches…
Remaining 16 get 30% total 10k

Team B is top 2 have 25% of the power, other 20 has the remaining 80%total 10k

There is no even match there…
first 8 players on team A, has 6 smoking teams each 54 of them that eat the highest scores offered throughout all 54 flags

Team B is forced to fight up, for the 12 flags they have with deep bench…

And the mismatch ends in the blowout we see often.

Then you should tag mhalttu with your 2 alliance names and ask him kindly to assess it. They have looked into it at top of thread. A developed bench vs someone who has a few 1-1 heroes rounding out their top 30 should not have an equal war score 14k. The top 5 weighted puts more emphasis on those 5, but still counts 6-30. What is your war score btw?

So your saying an alliance is weighted heavy at top or an individual’s heroes. I cant always tell when your switching. Solid built teams with depth will be the top 4 teams of alliance B? and then the bottom 15 players of B have total garbage teams? And alliance A is somewhat even between them to make the war score balance?

And blowout happens because you see alliance B able to reset board easily while A has trouble knocking down the others top 3 defense. Sometimes making a wipe feel impossible without luck?

War score 274879…

And it only counts top 30 if I have 30…

Example is I was far higher powe at level 27 than I was at level 32

At 27 I had 30 hero’s in my roster, many 3’s

At level 32 I hit Tc 20 and caught a couple 4*
So I ate the 16 empty 3* I was holding as I was in the learning curve, and desperate for a better team…
so my total roster was only 14…

So if 3 empty … 3* is a full 5*
As you can see I was giving up 5… maxed 5* at level 27… but not at level 32…
In the equation…
Top 5 weighted seems is if anything to benefit the stronger team as they lowered the 5 value…

Right but team a withe the top power easily flips and puts the math out of reach… as you can’t control spawn while they can…

As you know war often goes bottom up, in the way players are attacked…

So the lowest player gets attacked the most…

On my team I get attacked only to cause the flip… usually 2x max

While lower players will be attacked on average 4-5 times.

Yes the flip does not need to happen though if it’s weighted enough as one offers enough lower targets throughout the war with respawn…

The lower team must flip to increase lower hanging fruit…
But it only offers one more grab and if there was only 3 below say 3200… you get those an extra time…

The other team if there was say 8 below 3200, give up the 8 in the flip…

So it extends to 6 for weak team and extends to 16 for the stronger team to prey on.

I don’t personally consider summing up xp differentials to be “math”, except in the most trivial use of that word. If you’d like to see math, I can point you to a few posts.

Speaking of math though, is there any reason you ignored my post where I pointed out that Kayo’s MATH showed that level was the least useful predictor of team strength in your match-up picture, and that the most TP- per-unit-of-level was concentrated among the people in their 20s?

And if we’re considering summing up level differentials as math, then why are you refusing to deal with the math of that 3.5M xp differential between those two pictures? The xp gap between those two players is as big as the gap between lvl 1 and lvl 30. If level is such a good predictor of roster, and xp is an insurmountable advantage, why is the lvl 42 so much weaker than the lvl 34?

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Ok I’m with you there. Do you still only have 14 leveled heroes. Not having 30 total heroes could greatly throw off the matching. Your alliance seems to be somewhere in the middle of the pact but a little lower than avg. I think in that position yes you will struggle massively because you only bring 3 attack flags to the table. That will create a blowout, and just maybe that is the root cause of this.

Nothing agsinst you at all, but maybe eating so many partly leveled heroes and replacing them with 1-1 4* has created all your issues. That sub par decision has left you and some teammates in a.very bad war situation. Time will help rebuild it but you cannot blame the developers for your mistakes.

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