[Alliance War] Unequal sum of available points for both alliances = unfair scoring system! (Probably due to emblems?)

Hi guys,

Afaik when the latest scoring system of alliance war was introduced it was stated that each alliance board is worth 1500pt. Those 1500 points are allocated to all team members based on the total HP of their defense team. Usually for a 30 member alliance each team is worth more or less 50 points.

However, when calculating what our alliance was worth today vs what our opponent was worth today I get two unequal sums .
7DD: 1526pt (corrected this number due to initial error)
Ritual: 1532pt

Those points are assuming we’d all do one-shots. Meaning 7DD would gain at 6pt advantage (corrected due to initial error) every time we wipe the board, even tho we kill the same amount of people.

Was that always the case / was it intended?
I believe it would only be fair that every alliance is worth the same amount of points (1500pt per reset).

Why has there been a difference? I suspect it’s due to emblems, but not sure.
@Petri I’d appreciate a statement. :slight_smile:

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Hi @Aquaginera this has actually been part of alliance wars for a long time. It is caused by the rounding of numbers when calculating each teams power. Since we don’t have .1, .6, etc points, these points have to be rounded up or down. This is where the board total variations come from.

If you search the forums you should be able to find multiple threads on this exact question. You may find more complete information in them than what I gave in my quick response.

Could it be tweaked? Probably. Should it be changed? Again, probably. Not arguing that… just FYI as to why it is like this :laughing:

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Are you absolutely sure that Ritual total value of all 30 members combined was 1532pt? And that score was calculated before any 7DD member did any single attack?

What @LadySuzanne says it’s true, there is a rounding up which increases the value of the whole alliance over 1500pts.

But if no 7DD member had attacked yet, the thing is that even if you have to round up all 30 members from Ritual, the sum of all of them should be at most 1530.

It’s not literal rounding. But there is some process by which all numbers are converted to whole numbers. The problem is that there are two sets of numbers getting converted here:

  1. The portion of the war points based on health
  2. The bonus war points that each team gets assigned

Since there is a floor on the bonus war points, it’s not a roughly symmetric proces like rounding, but instead is a process that always gives a value >= 1500.

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Great,

Lets say all member of an alliance have both sets of numbers converted to whole numbers because of this process. Is it possible to find that the sum of available points of a 30-member alliance right away the war starts is 1560pts?

Also I asked the OP if the scores were before any player did any attack. That’s because every time a player is attacked and not one shoted, this process can make the total value of that particular player to be raised by one.

That was debated in a 1v1 alliance war with a final score of 4502-4503, with 3 sweeps on each side. Winner player was the one who accomplished less one shots.

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It floats quite a bit for samples taken pre-engagement. But 1506 is the more surprising number than 1532.

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@Garanwyn Thank-you for the clarification! If it’s ok with you, I’ll keep explaining it in threads as ‘rounding’. This math makes my head hurt :rofl:

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Whatever floats your boat. We don’t exactly know how they’re coming up with the sum, just that it’s never less than 1500. :man_shrugging:

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Sorry, my bad! It’s 1526 vs. 1532.
So a 6pt difference which could lead to a total difference/advantage of 30pt with 5 wipes for the same amount of flags.

Yes, sir. :slight_smile: We do pretty extensive war tracking so we have the one-shot values of every target. I knew about the rounding issues but I was honestly expecting that SG “compensates” for those and levels the playing field so that both alliances are worth at least the same amount of points.

So @Garanwyn is saying that it could possibly max be 1500 vs. 1560 per board? That’s quite a difference, more than 1 one-shot. :o

Has it always been this much or have emblems worsened this situation?

I hope that SG will fix this issue soon as it gives one alliances an advantage from the beginning on and the playing fields are not leveled. We all know that just a couple points can make the difference and with up to 5 resets per war that are quite some points in difference.

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No, I think the variation would be on the order of several points, based on the evenness of health distribution between the two alliances.

As I said, 1506 seemed very surprising. 1526 seems in the right ballpark.

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Very useful piece of information on this topic!

I wonder why this solution isn’t applied:

After the preparation phase ends and players are ready to attack, calculate everyone score as it’s done currently. Substract one alliance total score to the other. If the result is not 0, calculate the difference. For every point of difference, add 1 point of value to the killing bonus of random members of the aliance with the least score until the difference is 0.

Then launch the war for both alliances.

Sounds good to me :slight_smile:

My guess is, though, they figure the broad bands that matchmaking pairs within dominate the points issue. 15 points in 180 flags is .08 points per flag. That could make a difference in a given war…but it probably won’t.

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It would be more of an issue for the top alliances where every flag is used and pretty much only bad boards prevent one-shots. Where my alliance sits it is probably moot as all flags are rarely used by either side.

I know it is highly unlikely. What I was trying to say is that despite being highly unlikely, it is still possible tho, correct?

Exactly what I was thinking about. The solution sounds so easy to me (at least logically, I have no clue how easy it would be to implement) that I am wondering why SG hasn’t done it already. :thinking:

I suspect most or all of the differences you see are created when failing one shots. When you use two shots or more to kill an opponent there may be an extra point awarded, likely due to round off errors.

Everyone likes to attack Goon so look at her in the photos. In one she is one shot for 50 points. In another she takes 18+32 = 50 but in the third she takes 40+11= 51 points.

Next war try totaling the one shot points of all teams on each side and comparing those totals

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That’s what I did already, see above. :slight_smile: 1526 vs 1532

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This would work in mostly homogeneous alliances, but in alliances where you have defense teams of 1500 power and 3500 power, where that extra point lands could be more unbalanced than that extra point not existing at all…

A ‘wiping bonus’ (reset bonus) to make up the difference would be a clean way to deal with this?

Well, I can’t argue that of course. But I think my solution comes along with how SG manages this kind of things. If we recall raid tournament rules, after 5 defenses in a day, you get 1 valid defense within an hour, denying other defenses. So which defense is valid is also kind of random and unbalances things between players. In AW, where does the point land follows the same point of view from SG.

That’s a good one. Resetting the whole opponent alliance to get those wiping bonus points could encourage players to fight hard and participate more in AW.

I believe it’s impossible. But I also don’t know the points allocation formula, so I can’t 100% rule it out. I think 15 points is the maximum gap, plus a possible delta due to size mismatches between alliances driving a difference in the formulation.

My belief:

Ceiling(1000/30) = 34
34*30 = 1020
Ceiling(500/30) = 17
17*30 = 510

That makes 51 points the nominal value for teams with 30 members.

So 1020+510=1530 should be the default value for a 30-member alliance, +/- several bonus points due to uneven health distribution causing some rounding in the points.

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