All unintended nerfs

Can we get a place to record each of the nerfs to heroes that aren’t official released, so we can keep track of when they were released.

10/20/20

Mitsuko nerfed
Ursena nerfed

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Can I ask, are these being raised as bugs or issues to be resolved by SG?
If they are I assume they can already be tracked and any decision / outcome monitored…

How was each hero changed/nerfed? Got pics?

this is like his fourth new thread about basically the same thing, we get it you hate SGG :upside_down_face: :rofl: I blurred out what could be considered a mischaracterization or a personal attack fyi i jest

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Just attempting a trial of if 75% of new threads are complaints…will something change? It worked for telluria, so maybe it will work here…

Nevermind. I see what happened with changing the reflect to a defensive buff. Honestly thought it was already. I have Mits but not leveled and don’t have Ursena so wasn’t paying attention.

To be fair… these two have also benefited before from changes to game mechanics:

Other heroes who have indirectly been affected by changes to game mechanics are Hel, Onatel, Alberich… mostly those that have some weird mana rules that interfere with each other and then order of operations / priority of buff vs ailment had to be added on top of those cases.

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this is for unintended nerfs, not intended buffs… please stay on topic

also for those other heroes if you could provide the date of the unintended nerfs that would be great… oh wait they are actually unintended buffs…maybe i should start a thread for those as well :thinking:

I would say that’s an “unintentional nerf” to Onatel.

Personally I would call it an “indirect nerf” as well because the changes are intentional, but that’s just my opinion.

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What exactly is the nerf? Just that color reflect can get by passed by Ninja heroes and ranger class? Can finley bypass Mitsuko?

See this topic (quoted the official staff response):

The x chance to bypass buffs will now be active on reflect buffs.

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All of my status ailment heroes were nerfed with the inclusion of monk class, all my damage dealers were nerfed because of rogue class… is this the kind of nerf you mean?

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To answer your question a unintentional nerf is a change to an existing element that indirectly makes a hero worse. So for new elements that make a hero worse, I would call them intentional nerfs.

I have mits and she was changed cause Frida used to remove the reflect as well as Sonya but now they don’t which is fine by me. What exactly is this new Nerf to mits? I’ve been using her and everything seems normal

I noticed Sif’s Reflect gets flipped to elemental debuff By Evelyn — never noticed it before, but don’t know if it changed

Evelyn dispels Sif’s counterattack and leave her with her nature defense debuff. Evelyn gets some damage because her dispel goes after the damage tho.

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I think that what they did makes sense. If you have buffs then ranger can bypass them - really don’t know why it should matter what kind of buff it is - it should be working this way from the beginning imo. And obviously, fixing bugs can be called nerfs, because bugs usually brings some benefits.

And if you really want that list, you can, as @DaveCozy pointed out, add all dispellers there because when Mitsuko was changed my Sonya (among others) stopped dispelling it.

You can add there Onatal vs. Proteus/Hel as was mentioned before too.

Or you can add there Seshat vs. Hansel as Seshat was not reducing her mana thus getting damage from Hansel’s special every turn.

All those are bugs which helped one and made others worse, by fixing it it flipped around - the first one gets “nerfed” and second one “buffed”.

I think it’s more important if the changes make sense or not. And the change to Rangers does.

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Both make sense. It’s just a matter of consistency.

Up to 2 days ago, the devs said that elemental reflect had a higher priority than pierce and dispell. So if a blue piercer or dispeller was sending a special to some hero buffed with Mitsuko elemental reflect, then it would be reflected. Same for holy dispeller and piercer with Ursena special.
This has been confirmed by the dev.

Then a bug has been identified a couple of days ago, which is IF the hero carrying the elemental reflect also has another defensive buff, then special damage are not reflected (if pierce activates), while any other component of the special is reflected no matter what (finley’s defense debuff, alasie’s mana slow…).

Please notice that piercer’s description says NOTHING about only damage being concerned.
“The attack has a x% chance to bypass defensive buffs. This includes counterattack.”

So well, the obvious bugfix was to stick with the rule and make pierce special damage to be reflect no matter what, the same way as dispeller’s damage is reflected and the same way as piercer’s special debuff are reflected.

Instead of that, they chose to change the rule and make pierce having a higher priority than elemental reflect. Fair enough, but that’s not fixing a bug, it’s changing the rule and nerfing Mitsuko and Ursena when it comes to face piercers.
And considering how piercer’s are heavily used in Telluria defense teams (which SGG wants to kill) and the introduction of Cobalt, this is a pretty big deal.

Now what is not clear in the dev comment is whether this concerns only damage, and the rest of the effect will keep being reflected (in which case I think the description of the pierce effect has to change to “the attack’s damage has”
Or if concerns the whole package.

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That is a whole mess by itself.

My current favorites being Wu Kong, Isarnia, Shaarkot and Justice.

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