Alchemy Lab/Hero Academy Double selling fair?

Feel free to merge or whatever but i think you’ll find that this is more about the principle than the actual buildings/features

Selling us unwanted crap, then charging us to return unwanted crap with a high possibility of getting more unwanted crap is horrible business. No other way about it. Let’s break it down. Easiest way with heros.

Let’s say i do 1 30 pull for roughly 100 bucks.

Get 1 5*

100 bucks for 1 hero = already bad but i knew the odds

Well the 1 5* is a 5* i already have. Marjana for example(have 5 of her now)

Well 5s are hard to come by and not worth a ton of xp. So i decide to take her to hero academy.

Now hero academy let’s me exchange that hero for another hero of same * but i have to pay another 5 bucks to do so.

Eh it’s 5 bucks, no problem. Oh look i got a sartana in return that i have 5 of as well. Another 5 bucks? Sure, 110 bucks for 1 hero, why not. Oh look thorne i already have as well…you see where this is going

And now let’s say you have 50 unwanted 5s

That’s 250 bucks to exchange them all with high odds of getting more unwanted heros and that’s before counting the ones you get that you want to trade in again which if all 50 would double the cost now to 500 total. Then 750. Then $1k. $1k to return something that has already been bought and paid for…

250 bucks to return products i already bought.

Let’s say they came from 10 pulls at 1 5 per 10 pull

50 10 pulls at 30 bucks a pop = $1,500 in purchases for unwanted products

And now you want us to pay another 250 bucks to return those products. So now $1,750 in on heros i didnt want in the first place with high probability of getting more heros i didnt want in the first place with no upside that pulls have which is special heros, new heros, or ascension mat chests. That’s double selling the same products back to consumers that a company believes are dumb enough to buy them.

So alchemy lab
This one gets worse because you do buy guarantees, just not always the guarantees you want

Say you have 50 orbs, 3 darts

Sg offers a deal for 1 orb + 1 dart for say 9.99 or whatever

Now that you’ve bought all these 3* mats to get the 4* mats that come with them, you have 3 options. Squat on the mats, give them to unnecessary heros, or alchemy lab

Well you can take those orbs and trade them in. I dont know the exact cost, I’m not in beta. But Let’s say 25 orbs and 5 bucks for 1 random 4* mat. Eh ok worth the gamble i guess. Oh look i got my 19th scope. Now what do i do with it? I’ll just pay 5 bucks to trade it in again for another 4* mat(and I’m sure it would cost more than the scope to trade it in). Oh look my 14th rings. Now I’ve traded in 25 orbs, 1 scope, and spent 20 bucks just to get another unwanted mat(not even counting what was spent to obtain the individual orbs through all the purchases and what not). So now i either count my losses and keep the rings i needed as much as the orbs or i pay another 5 bucks and take another chance at getting an unwanted item which would put me 25 bucks + the items to cross my fingers again for a mat i want(though we know SG odds, probly going to get the scope back)

I know redundant redundant but feel it was necessary to paint a picture of the new features coming up.

Am i the only one seeing a problem with this business model? As if preying on addictions wasn’t bad enough, now to double charge those same people for their addictions…

Basically like selling someone a beer they didnt ask for then charging them to trade it for a beer they like as much or less as the beer they sent back

Maybe I’m overthinking it, but the principle of the whole thing just seems like a giant ripoff

And yes i know “it’s in beta and can change”, but would raid tourneys entry fees have changed if it wasnt brought to the attention of the public? Doubt it.

Feel like this subject needs to be discussed in public before seeing it hit official release and watching the aftermath

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My big objection is that Alchemy Lab is needed in the first place because pure RNG can produce very unequal distribution of materials. But you don’t fix RNG by adding more RNG onto it and charging for it to boot…

Just so everyone knows what we’re talking about:

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I agree, this system would be a huge ripoff. I like your beer analogy.

I am trying to be hopeful though; raid tournaments used to have a gem entry fee. We called them on it and they changed it. Hopefully the updated Alchemy Lab in the next version of Beta will be better.

I’m more interested in Hero Academy than Alchemy Lab; I have a ton of heroes saved up. I keep all my 4s and 5s. Hoping to trade in Thoth for a shot at Gravemaker… but if it requires gems to more than likely get back that same Thoth… no thanks. Especially since it will take months to even get Hero Academy leveled up… I hope they take our opinions seriously. I’m still upset that levels 22 and 24 of the Stronghold seem like they exist for no purpose whatsoever.

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Just to be clear, young don’t get charged to get the same item back. You appear to be guaranteed a different item back (Zephyr1 and I together I ran enough tests to verify this with 99.9%+ confidence).

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That’s good to know. I still have to agree with Rigs; paying to trade in something I already paid for? I can just picture trading in my extra Thoth-Amun and getting Thorne :rofl:

Is the Alchemy Lab currently available in Beta?

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No. They have moved on to the new event 5* heroes while they consider our collective feedback.

Many of us have requested various options that provide certainty of outcome, and that remove the gem cost.

I think it’s fair to say there was essentially no positive feedback on the AL in it’s last incarnation.

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the main thing is no-one force you to spend for this game , just be smart , you cannot compare your position as others.

if you think $100 are Expensive just for game , i am not , i spent $200 a month for gaming purpose, and do you think $200 are much ? not so , my friend spent $2000 a month which is little $$$ for him as entertaiment costs a month , he could spend more for beer and women.

Dev do something to give you second chance with less $$$ to re-roll your luck and ofc you could get something better also worse , and again its your call to use it or not.

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Lol it’s not about my financial status or anyone else’s(and nowhere in that post did i declare what my financial status is. I may be f2p for all you know)

Money is money. The guy that has no problem spending 2k and then spending another 1k on returns is getting ripped off just as much as the guy that has no problem spending 100 but paying another 50 on returns

“You chose to spend so that makes everything ok” is just bs. I chose to buy a poorly cooked steak at a restaurant too, guess i should pay to send it back or just deal with it then?

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Thanks @Rigs

Re the hero academy

What about a 5* for a guaranteed 3* you don’t have

10 x 5* for a guaranteed 4* you don’t have.

100 x 5* for a guaranteed 5* you don’t have.

What if SG says the only way to not RNG is to make the trade very punishing? Would that be acceptable.

Same q for alchemy lab I guess

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I think you might be misunderstanding meaning behind some of these comments. Reason for holding beta and forum threads is that it’s supposed to act as a medium to gather feedback.

I am not sure if you are aware or not, but developing features isn’t cheap. Software engineers are one of the most expensive resources for most companies, and I am pretty sure SGG has decent sized backlog of features and priorities to work on. If they are working on lab and academy, it means they are have certain expectations on outcomes. Spending thousands to million $ on a feature to be only used by few isn’t really an ideal outcome. From these threads, the general sense I am getting is that large chunk of beta players replied they aren’t looking forward to whatever they are developing (in current form). I’m pretty sure there might be some players like you and your friend, but they may not fall in majority.

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believe me every bragging and complain is about $$$ , if no $$$ involved no1 will complain about bad luck or bad pull.

as i said i spent $200 and i am okay if i got crap or junk (actually it happened) , it what we called Life and not everything will be as you wish , just get used it.

question is why i spent $200 got junk and not complain ? because i spent something i afford to lose , as my friend did pull 200x for Guin and got nothing , he was fine and will try another 200x pull next roll.

you should know how Gacha works , if you are not mentally prepared then better be a F2P , dont cross your line

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Personally i think doin it by * may not be the best route. May divide it up kind of like camps are.

S2 pool(all heros included in the s2 summon portals outside of special past hotms)

Fables pool(includes all fables heros + s1 heros)

Epic Pool(all season 1 heros

Etc

Basically if i pulled 50 5s over a year but could trade in the 50 for 10 more chances at the pool i was trying for in the first place, that i could get on board with.

If every 10 5s traded in was 1 free summon, i could handle that really as long as money is left out of it since money was already exchanged.

And even if they felt it was best to go the * route, ok can deal with that too.

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I’m wondering what the acceptable conversion rate is really. Most of us can only dream of making 50 5* pulls. That said I’ve probably done about 40 myself with TC20

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Brand new to the game

Whats a gacha?

And do you know where i can farm hidden blades?

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few ? lol dont live in your small world , believe me , there are many many player who spent more

in my case , if i need to pay $$$ to re-roll my unused *5 (horghall,mork-arr,duplicate) for another *5 , i will take that chance than to pay full roll again

Oh nice, super helpful thanks

What about the blade question though?

I have a bunch of 4s that need blades

Just been senslessly spending on heros. Didnt realize I’d have to find special mats.

And should i max 3s, 4s, or 5s first?

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Accurate

20 Characters

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I think the sarcastic nature of your post may have been missed :rofl: this made me laugh, thank you!

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‘May not’ is quite understated though. More like almost everyone absolutely hates the current mechanics of the alchemy lab

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