AGE of the CLASSED EPICS!

The 5 you have on your defense team are a no-brainer.

What hypothesis are you trying to prove here? That your legendary + 1 => epic + 7 approach is better than investing heavily in the five heroes on your war defense?

Many people here are making decisions regarding emblems with war in mind. Not all players may have the same priorities in that regard, but given the audience here I think it’s reasonable to assume that is the high priority for most folks here. With that assumption in mind, the fundamental question here becomes:

What is the optimal way to spend my emblems to improve my performance in war?

To begin answering this question, we introduce two simple measures that do a reasonable job of characterize personal success and improvement in wars.

  1. kO = Oneshot % = Rate one wins an individual war battle on the first try
  2. kD = Oneshotted % = Rate one loses an individual war battle on the first try

We also operate under the assumption the following axioms hold true:

  • Maximizing kO (Oneshot %) improves performance in war
  • Minimizing kD (Oneshotted %) improves performance in war

Hypothesis

Investing emblems immediately in the 5 heroes you use for war defense is the optimal way to spend emblems to improve your performance in war. This defense-first strategy reduces kD by an order of magnitude more than the increase to kO provided by scatter feeding emblems to a mixture of 4* and 5* heroes.

Concentrating resources on defense exploits the limited resource pool war attackers have, creating a larger gap between your defenders and the back half of their lineup. This is similar to when most players did not have deep benches, same-colored tanks were incredibly effective, and kO was universally much lower. This gap will be much slower to close given the current rate that we acquire emblems.

Emblems used on your defense heroes are used in every battle you are defending. They will also be used if you choose to attack with one of those heroes on offense. Emblems you use on 4* heroes are used at most once per war.

Addressing Other Points

  • Other players invest emblems based on the impact they have on Titans, Event Challenges, and other PvE
  • The raid attackers you mention would still be there. Those people didn’t have any better heroes and that is why they are emblemed out (Kiril, Caedmon, etc).
  • An offense of 4* heroes with no emblems could have gone 5/5 against those teams as well
  • @Olmor destroyed an emblemed BossWolf with Danzaburo and 3 heroes that aren’t maxed out. <3 anecdotes.
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Interesting stuff for sure, I’m just not sure that having a stronger defense is truly the answer for a better war performance. We’ve already been through this building process previously… most players/leaders suggested folks to build up depth, build up the heroes they could max quicker, avoid using so many resources on 5s early as you won’t see a big payoff from those investments until much later… but for some reason everyone believes emblems have somehow changed the depth building process to mean “max your 5s now” and I’m not sure that’s the case, we can stack how we’d like on offense, how well does an 80+20 really hold up to a mono stack of 80+5, does it hold up better at all, are we talking about 1 more tile here? Is there a break point vs 80+20 that I can simply stack my normal 3/2 and not see any real issues outside of the board needing to cooperate?

My point, not that I really have one, is that this is a process of learning for a lot of folks and I don’t think there are any definitive answers just yet and this doesn’t even begin to talk about clan composition (not everyone is in top 100 with 30 maxed 5s) and maybe spreading emblems a bit in order to not be as “top heavy” to give yourself better war matchups for your entire clan as opposed to everyone maxing 5 and being faced with other folks that have done the same, but doing so with a “weaker” (potentially) offense. I’m one that always advocates offense over defense and truly believe one of the worst mistakes folks make is to have a defense that heavily outpaced their offensive capabilities… so I’m still trying to wrap my mind around 80+20 for defense first and if that’s the best way forward in all cases. Anyway, food for thought.

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I’ve received one from an elemental chest before, but only once, and I don’t track my drops so there’s a chance I’ve mis-remembered.

I want to get my defense team 5s to talent node 4 so they have 2 levels of the actual talent. Once that is done then the rest of my emblems are going into 4s as the cost to benefit ratio is so much higher with them. Max 3 4s for the same cost as 1 5.

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@Razor
Oh I have plenty of hope. i appreciate it though. I’m on board for 4* heroes with emblems. I only messed up with splitting between 2 scarletts. Gonna reset and use em all on one. Seems to be much more beneficial to have one OP and one regular than 2 semi better 4*'s

My Classing Strategy

Those without Legends your goals would be fairly clear as an Epic player, and I will suggest these both for you and for Legendary players (this is not a complete list):


Boldtusk, Rigard, Kiril, Grimm, Wilbur, Proteus, Hansel

I have found Valeria post ‘balancing’ worthy. Wu Kong due to high use with Titans and Buddy is favored by many. Any of the AOE healers are great options, so include Melendor and Sabina.

My Strategy is Simple: It is based on Enabling Talent!

It is surprising how often a 3-6% chance fires…

Every hero should have their talent enabled for obvious reasons.

Some Talents I agree are better than others. Those you consider worthless: that is a personal call. Revive is my favorite. If emblem collection efforts allow me, I will certainly push a favored talent over an un-favored during my classing per this strategy.

A) 1st Class every Legend I use regularly, in the order of use - as emblems allow.

B) 1st Class every Epic I use regularly, in the order of use - as emblems allow.

C) Further class Epics that have ‘special’ special skills to class level 7.

  • My Defense Team is 1st Classed.
  • My primary Raiding Teams are 1st Classed (or soon to be).
  • I have begun 1st Classing my primary War teams.
  • Legends again will not be classed beyond level 1, unless the emblems wouldn’t be used otherwise.
  • This will continue until I’m done.

Should the field indicate Epics classed no longer compete with classed Legends (this is not matter of fact; it is to be determined over time) I would re-evaluate. This could be a very long time from now, perhaps not. At that point I should have enough resets saved up (I believe from steady war participation) that I can selectively reset my Epics of less value and move the emblems to my primary use Legends.

Is this the correct strategy? I don’t know. I’m going to find out!

Why did I choose class 7 as my EPIC target?

It offers a fair % increase of the Talent being enabled as well a good marker to allow taking several to this level (as both emblems and time is limited for the goal) and I am 1st classing 20+ Legends. If I reach this mark across the board, I will certainly consider higher levels for those performing extraordinarily. Boldtusk has been such a hero to date.

for example:
Boldtusk 18% instead of 6%
Grimm 18% instead of 6%
Cheshire Cat 9% instead of 3%

Most players appear to be classing their ‘Defense’ team as high as they can - with clear attempts at balanced classing (emblems allowing).

Those of you without a strategy perhaps something to consider. Otherwise see you in what 3 months, 6 months, a year, a year and a half?

RaZoR-sIgNaTuRe

@Rigs @Wormwood @PeachyKeen @amessofamind @Decorum @sixixix @General_Confusion @Garanwyn @DoctorStrange @FraVit93

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Why did I choose class 7 as my EPIC target?
It gets me to a fair increase in the odds/% of the Talent being enabled and it seemed a good mark so that I could bring up many more to this level as both emblems and time is limited for the goal. If I reach this mark across the board I will certainly move them higher or if one is performing extraordinary (i.e. Boldtusk) I will continue to push them higher.

i.e.

Boldtusk 18% instead of 6%
Grimm 18% instead of 6%
CC 9% instead of 3%

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I think certain 4* are worthy of consideration at higher levels. Buddy for example, gets his mana boost at 8 and (because i prioritize tile damage) 9/10 add +30 attack.

Bold tusk is another, with his heal/sick attack boost and revive puts him in 5* ranges very quickly.

Just one small opinion and there really are only a handful of 4* that I would consider over 5* and even then I am only going so far.

Once i hit the next level of pierce for Buddy (12) he is done, for me. Then to Lianna! :slight_smile:

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I currently do not have any maxed 5* heroes, as they take an ungodly amount of heroes to feed. I’ve gotten my prime 5 up to 4/50 and I’m working on my depth of 4* and alt 5* heroes. What i have noticed. I prefer my maxed 4* heroes with 7-8 talents over my 4/50 heroes on many offensive encounters. Right now, i’m still using 2-3 max 4* heroes on my defense. Will this change once I have mexed out some 5* heroes, yes, most likely. But I hate to say that my Melendor with 8 talents seems to have much more of an impact that Alberich at 4/50… The heals + debuff are immeasurably beneficial, as well as the average cast. He’s also got pretty high attack, so his damage is fairly good for a healer.

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Your findings are on point @sixixix. Came across my first full clased epic team that was on leaderboard and follow up convo indicated they got there with classed epic attack teams… I know this ‘PERIOD’ is time limited, we just don’t know how long that time limit is lol… TBD Here they are… (also just added Melendor to my leveling plan for healers with excellent AOE need them healers for arrow barrage and I lack there)

@Rigs its one of your CREW!

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Also I’m seeing class 19 epics now… amazingly many Legends are getting up in the 9-12 range which shocks the heck out of me but its reality… so leaderboard access may not be long for classed epics… the later, that is a crap load of emblems within a single class to have obtained…

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To me many of the classed epics in the leaderboard are FTP players who haven’t yet found legendary heroes. Even I started to find my first legendaries around lv 30, like Bella’s actual level.

In the end epic heroes are easier to obtain and faster to improve on top of having better effects of core legendary heroes, wich would generally be a higher damage variant of the core epics in most of the cases.

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I agree with the “limited time” of being on the leader boards. My observation is that my team of Melendor, Boldtusk, Magni (4/50), Gormek, Tiburtus (all around 8-10 talents) perform more exceptionally than my team of Alberich, Zimkitha, Magni, Onatel, Sartana (All 4/50).
Perhaps it has to do with my play style. But I really have a lot more success with my twink epics than I do with my almost fully leveled legendaries.

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Screenshot_20190528-124704

Here’s a snapshot of what I am working with for war, raid, tournament, etc.

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Nice Deck! Little insider if its not already known, post balancing Valeria became attractive to me. ■■■■, love her. At cls 1 I use her in Wars. I had I think 4 ate 3 I usually save a unique hero - so glad I did and I see you have 2. Very Fast with compounding DOT. Gravemaker didn’t like that too much… in fact he chocked and died on it. Take one up - try her out.

Love Boldtusk! All the AOE healers are worthy…

I can see your point on Legends, its actually that last leveling leg about the last 13 levels which I see either you dipped into or started feeling the materials burn at 50? Or maybe your just a smart leveler not sure… anyway those last 13 are so timely and costly (I’m wondering could I level a 4* full during that phase lol).

My point on that is that, what was my point? lol. OHHH yeah good examples of heros who need to be FULLY LEVELED/ASCENDED to really shine IMO:

SARTANA (whom I see you have at 4/50)…
KADILEN (whom I didn’t full, but am aware of the difference in her power and staying power from 3/4 to FULL in offensive raiding).

just an example. So there are some LEGENDS that will not seem so GREAT until they are complete - where as you are comparing COMPLETE EPICS against them. Loooking in your Team one - once they are FULL - they will be nasty! Good pics. Nice leveling. Good classing (not sure on Jahangir however not to judge - you clearly know what your doing and probably have a great reason - I don’t participate in Rare events much because I made the mistake of feeding them to my legends to save space - advice there is invest in space lol).

Take care

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Forgot to mention your epics are not only FULL they are well classed (as well well chosen), yes absolutely they would be stronger/better for some period of time for sure especially as it stands and even so when your Legends are FULL but not classed (likely). It’s that unknown period of time factor… They will do well against any un-classed or low classed Legends permanently. It’s how well will they do against similarly classed Legends which we all want to find out (more so the final results)! Think you already thought along these lines, but just clarifying for someone that might read and wonder… or someone that would point it out and bring me back to clarify lol.

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@Razor Here is Sabina, 19 more emblems needed and her talent will be maxed lol.

For anyone else interested, Sabina is the only Sorcerer I have and I detest having unused emblems sitting in my inventory ~ think the opposite of hoarding :grimacing:

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LOL Jangahar… Okay, so Jangarhar is my project person. I literally had zero sorcerers and I got him right before one of the “All skills are very fast” so I maxed him out and dropped my emblms into him. I love Valeria, but right after i got her, i picked up Magni and Aegir, and have kinda put her on the back burner. i use her in wars cause the fast cast and stacking DOTs just like you said. I stopped at 4/50 because I really needed to boost my war output, so I started getting a bunch of other heroes higher up to be more competitive within my alliance. But, Now that i have a pretty decent array of Heroes I’m plamnning on making that last push to 80/

I was not aware they post-balanced Valeria… I kinda gave up on her after I got some Legendaries… I loved her but it was short lived. I may re-look at her. I liked how I could use both to stack DOTs like crazy on people.

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