The 5 you have on your defense team are a no-brainer.
What hypothesis are you trying to prove here? That your legendary + 1 => epic + 7 approach is better than investing heavily in the five heroes on your war defense?
Many people here are making decisions regarding emblems with war in mind. Not all players may have the same priorities in that regard, but given the audience here I think it’s reasonable to assume that is the high priority for most folks here. With that assumption in mind, the fundamental question here becomes:
What is the optimal way to spend my emblems to improve my performance in war?
To begin answering this question, we introduce two simple measures that do a reasonable job of characterize personal success and improvement in wars.
- kO = Oneshot % = Rate one wins an individual war battle on the first try
- kD = Oneshotted % = Rate one loses an individual war battle on the first try
We also operate under the assumption the following axioms hold true:
- Maximizing kO (Oneshot %) improves performance in war
- Minimizing kD (Oneshotted %) improves performance in war
Investing emblems immediately in the 5 heroes you use for war defense is the optimal way to spend emblems to improve your performance in war. This defense-first strategy reduces kD by an order of magnitude more than the increase to kO provided by scatter feeding emblems to a mixture of 4* and 5* heroes.
Concentrating resources on defense exploits the limited resource pool war attackers have, creating a larger gap between your defenders and the back half of their lineup. This is similar to when most players did not have deep benches, same-colored tanks were incredibly effective, and kO was universally much lower. This gap will be much slower to close given the current rate that we acquire emblems.
Emblems used on your defense heroes are used in every battle you are defending. They will also be used if you choose to attack with one of those heroes on offense. Emblems you use on 4* heroes are used at most once per war.
Addressing Other Points
- Other players invest emblems based on the impact they have on Titans, Event Challenges, and other PvE
- The raid attackers you mention would still be there. Those people didn’t have any better heroes and that is why they are emblemed out (Kiril, Caedmon, etc).
- An offense of 4* heroes with no emblems could have gone 5/5 against those teams as well
- @Olmor destroyed an emblemed BossWolf with Danzaburo and 3 heroes that aren’t maxed out. <3 anecdotes.
Interesting stuff for sure, I’m just not sure that having a stronger defense is truly the answer for a better war performance. We’ve already been through this building process previously… most players/leaders suggested folks to build up depth, build up the heroes they could max quicker, avoid using so many resources on 5s early as you won’t see a big payoff from those investments until much later… but for some reason everyone believes emblems have somehow changed the depth building process to mean “max your 5s now” and I’m not sure that’s the case, we can stack how we’d like on offense, how well does an 80+20 really hold up to a mono stack of 80+5, does it hold up better at all, are we talking about 1 more tile here? Is there a break point vs 80+20 that I can simply stack my normal 3/2 and not see any real issues outside of the board needing to cooperate?
My point, not that I really have one, is that this is a process of learning for a lot of folks and I don’t think there are any definitive answers just yet and this doesn’t even begin to talk about clan composition (not everyone is in top 100 with 30 maxed 5s) and maybe spreading emblems a bit in order to not be as “top heavy” to give yourself better war matchups for your entire clan as opposed to everyone maxing 5 and being faced with other folks that have done the same, but doing so with a “weaker” (potentially) offense. I’m one that always advocates offense over defense and truly believe one of the worst mistakes folks make is to have a defense that heavily outpaced their offensive capabilities… so I’m still trying to wrap my mind around 80+20 for defense first and if that’s the best way forward in all cases. Anyway, food for thought.
I’ve received one from an elemental chest before, but only once, and I don’t track my drops so there’s a chance I’ve mis-remembered.
I want to get my defense team 5s to talent node 4 so they have 2 levels of the actual talent. Once that is done then the rest of my emblems are going into 4s as the cost to benefit ratio is so much higher with them. Max 3 4s for the same cost as 1 5.
Oh I have plenty of hope. i appreciate it though. I’m on board for 4* heroes with emblems. I only messed up with splitting between 2 scarletts. Gonna reset and use em all on one. Seems to be much more beneficial to have one OP and one regular than 2 semi better 4*'s
My Strategy Revealed...Those who may have been following my responses in this thread know that I didn't come back and wrap this up! My apologies if I left the few of you hanging!
Those without Legends your goals would be clear and I will suggest these both for you and for Legendary players (this is not a complete list):
Boldtusk, Wilbur, Proteus, Rigard, Kiril, Grimm, Hansel, Buddy
I have personally found that Valeria post ‘balancing’ is also worthy in my deck and Wu Kong simply due to high use with Titans.
My Strategy is Simple & based on Enabeling Talent!It is surprising how often a 3-6% chance fires...
Class every hero I use in the order of use to 1.
Every hero should have their talent enabled for obvious reasons. Some Talents I agree better than others. Those you might consider worthless that is personal judgment call… Revive is my favorite. If emblems allow me, I will certainly push a favored talent over an un-favored during my classing per this strategy.
Class Epics that have ‘special’ special skills to 7 or higher (or those that are clearly the best in class with card stats - I however emphasize special skills).
Therefore my Primary Defense is all classed 1.
My primary attack teams are all class 1 (or soon to be).
I have started into my primary War teams classing each to 1.
NONE of my Legends are going beyond class 1 in the current phase.
This will continue until I’m done, and/or Epics classed do not compete with Legends classed any longer (this is not fact it is tbd). This could be a very long time from now or maybe not. At that point I will have enough resets saved up (I believe) that I can selectively reset my Epics of less value and move the emblems to my primary Legends.
Is it the correct strategy? I don’t know but I’m going to find out!
Those of you without a strategy perhaps something to consider. Otherwise see you in what 6 months, a year, a year and a half, 2 years? Then you can judge me as a good hunch or bad hunch just not
Why did I choose class 7 as my EPIC target?
It gets me to a fair increase in the odds/% of the Talent being enabled and it seemed a good mark so that I could bring up many more to this level as both emblems and time is limited for the goal. If I reach this mark across the board I will certainly move them higher or if one is performing extraordinary (i.e. Boldtusk) I will continue to push them higher.
Boldtusk 18% instead of 6%
Grimm 18% instead of 6%
CC 9% instead of 3%
I think certain 4* are worthy of consideration at higher levels. Buddy for example, gets his mana boost at 8 and (because i prioritize tile damage) 9/10 add +30 attack.
Bold tusk is another, with his heal/sick attack boost and revive puts him in 5* ranges very quickly.
Just one small opinion and there really are only a handful of 4* that I would consider over 5* and even then I am only going so far.
Once i hit the next level of pierce for Buddy (12) he is done, for me. Then to Lianna!
I currently do not have any maxed 5* heroes, as they take an ungodly amount of heroes to feed. I’ve gotten my prime 5 up to 4/50 and I’m working on my depth of 4* and alt 5* heroes. What i have noticed. I prefer my maxed 4* heroes with 7-8 talents over my 4/50 heroes on many offensive encounters. Right now, i’m still using 2-3 max 4* heroes on my defense. Will this change once I have mexed out some 5* heroes, yes, most likely. But I hate to say that my Melendor with 8 talents seems to have much more of an impact that Alberich at 4/50… The heals + debuff are immeasurably beneficial, as well as the average cast. He’s also got pretty high attack, so his damage is fairly good for a healer.
Your findings are on point @sixixix. Came across my first full clased epic team that was on leaderboard and follow up convo indicated they got there with classed epic attack teams… I know this ‘PERIOD’ is time limited, we just don’t know how long that time limit is lol… TBD Here they are… (also just added Melendor to my leveling plan for healers with excellent AOE need them healers for arrow barrage and I lack there)
@Rigs its one of your CREW!
Also I’m seeing class 19 epics now… amazingly many Legends are getting up in the 9-12 range which shocks the heck out of me but its reality… so leaderboard access may not be long for classed epics… the later, that is a crap load of emblems within a single class to have obtained…
To me many of the classed epics in the leaderboard are FTP players who haven’t yet found legendary heroes. Even I started to find my first legendaries around lv 30, like Bella’s actual level.
In the end epic heroes are easier to obtain and faster to improve on top of having better effects of core legendary heroes, wich would generally be a higher damage variant of the core epics in most of the cases.