Advice needed for 5* offense/defense teams

[Blbecek]

Need advice on future both offense team (one generally useful main team if possible) and defense team to be competitive in Diamond. Currently my roster is Wu Kong, Melendor, Wilbur, Isarnia, Rigard on defense and pretty much the same on offense - I’m somewhere between 2100-2300+ cups (2417 was max). I fight mainly 7* and some 8* titans - I’m happy to usually get tier 9 loot with for three chances on ascension items. In few days I will be running TC20, I plan to run two TC20 in future - I hope to get some good 5* in next few months. I did few pulls on Atlantis and events, but chances for hotm are small, I’m not counting much for other hotm a events 5* (last time I was lucky, and I don’t plan to spend much). For ascension mats I like to skip mainly monster chests, do titans, rare quests and special events and AW. Now I hope that on diamond I will have better chances on ascension materials. So I’m looking for good 5* for both attack and defense teams mainly from what I have and what I hope to get from TC20.

Ascension materials:
4* - 3x dam. blade, 2x tome, 4x tabard, 3x darts, 1x rings telescope and tonic
3* - 7x compass, 5x gloves, 8x trap tool, 6x blade, 5x shield, 4x cape, 3x orb

Heroes:
Red 5* - Khagan 3/70
Blue 5* - Isarnia 4/65 (will be fininshed soon)
Green 5* - Evelyn (fresh 9/2 now)
Yellow 5* - Musashi (fresh 47/1 now)
Purple 5* - Domitia 2/60

Red 4* - Wilbur 4/70, Falcon 3/60, Lancelot and 2nd Falcon
Blue 4* - Grimm 3/60, Triton and two more Grimms
Green 4* - Melendor 4/70, Gadeirus 3/60, Skittleskull
Yellow 4* - Wu Kong 4/70, Jackal 3/60, Li Xiu 3/60, 2nd Wu Kong
Purple 4* - Rigard 4/70, Cyprian 3/60, 2nd Cyprian

What would be good 5* offence and defense teams to stay in diamond if I can get any TC20 hero and have enough 4* ascension materials in few months? I want to spend materials on best possible heroes and balanced “starter” teams only, so if you have suggestions, ideally heroes rosters in order I gladly appreciate to read them. For sure I will need good 5* tank for defense team.

[AirHawk]

Red - Falcon (Wilbur only if you have extra mats - both if you red stack)
Blue - Isarnia (no Grimm cause similar effect to Isarnia or Wilbur)
Green - Evelyn + Melendor
Yellow - Jackal (keep Musashi in the closet and only up till 3/70 if you have nothing else to up)
Purple - Rigard (Cyprian after if you have difficulty with quests)

With the heroes you have, you can raid your way up to diamond but you wont be able to hold it there. Just keep getting better heroes. You dont have much mats to waste so I wont recommend Khagan/Domitia/Musashi.

[Blbecek]

Thank you AirHawk for your reply.
I just want to have some outlook for future because I feel that I can’t progress to diamond much better with only 4* heroes.
Let say I will don’t have luck with other special/hotm heroes but I will have luck with tc20 and I set of 4* ascension materials for every color of posible rainbow 5* team in next few months.
I don’t have experience in diamond, I think generally I will need one or no healers and I want to have good defense team to stay in lower diamond and want to use most of that heroes for offense team too.

Let’s talk about possible defense team to be more conrete.
So I already ascended Isarnia to last tier let’s say I want to use her.
I already have Evelyn and she is not bad a I think she is worth be ascended at least to 3rd tier. I read that she is good with another green hero because of her nature debuff (I think you suggested Melendor partly because of the tile damage and what heroes I have).
So I will better have 2 greens let’s say that I will have luck on Lianna on tc20.
If I will have only set of 4* asc.mats maybe Evelyn 3/70 + Lianna 4/80 will be best option and not oposite.
Maybe Evelyn a Lianna are good as flanks and I need will red tank to prevent killing flanks cause of color stacking of the opponent.
Let’s say I will be lucky again in tc20 and I will get Marjana (or Azlar as worse choise) for tank.
Last one should be yellow of dark, something like Sartana or Joon, when I will not be lucky I can use Musashi which I already have.

So, what do you think about this possible defense team (and ideally base for average offense team) to for lower diamond?
Sartana(Musashi), Evelyn (maybe 3/70), Marjana, Lianna, Isarnia.
Will be this order OK?
Thank for any advice, I just want to have some outlook for future. Any ideas much appreciated.

[AirHawk]

Yes your setup is ok. Definitely will be able to hold in lower diamond.

Do note that Azlar is not a “worse” choice. He is one of the better tanks that will punish a bad board.

[badassninjadad]

The only issue i can see is the color distribution. I would definitely attack that team with a couple or 3 strong reds. I get standard damage against your tank times the number of reds I have, and heavy damage against your greens. I think a double green set up with Evelyn is better suited for raids against blue tanks or hits on blue titans. Hope that helps.

ps your decisions are largely drawn from your RNG luck with the tc20s, for example, I have 4 Thornes, lol

[Blbecek]

So rainbow defense team is generally better?
In this case I can have good base for doube stacking offense team especially against blue (no problem to reroll for me).
Is this better defense team? Lianna, Musashi, Marjana, Isarnia, Sartana

I wanted to discuss heroes because I want to know which 5* I have to ascend when I get enough materials or wait for another heroes and if they will work together as some team.
Just can’t help myself to think about future with all fully ascended 5*
I know you have right about RNG for tc20 - it’s the same as summons and 5 Thornes are really bad luck

Recapitulation based on what heroes I have:
Isarnia - already ascended
Khagan - definitely wait for better hero
Damitia - definitely wait for better hero
Musashi - wait or ascend i will see
Evelyn - only to 3/70 (have materials) and wait for other green first

It’s kind of hard to have full 5* rainbow team and know I have to wait for better heroes because 4* ascension materials are too valuable to spend unwisely.
Thank you very much for your ideas.

[AirHawk]

Really don’t like Musashi. Please wait for a better yellow or try for this month’s HoTM.

[AirHawk]

In general, a rainbow team is better if your individual color heroes are strong by themselves.

Another important aspect in a team is the synergy of the skills involved.
A rainbow team is doomed to fail if the synergy is weak.

An easy example would be having Evelyn + Horghall/Skittle, its very hard for the opposing team to recover from it unless they are able to cleanse in time. Taking heavy green damage with an attack debuff make life hard.

The super heroes mentioned many times in this forum are the super heroes who can stand alone by themselves and wreak havoc to the other team. Namely those like Guin/GM/Zeline.

Study and experiment with the heroes that you have and see what goes better in a lineup. Thats the fun part. A team of 5* is solid but can be weak due to poor synergy and the only thing going for them are better stats compared to 4* heroes.

[Blbecek]

I think I understand, with Evelyn and how AI works in defense (2 or 3 debuffed opponent heroes), it’s good to have green AOE and not sniper like Lianna.
I suppose Zeline + Evelyn will be ideal, I will save money and maybe Zeline will be in some other atlantis events this year.
I have Skittie but like Horghall she is slow and I already have slow fully ascended Isarnia.
So that brings me to subject what do you think about Kadilen, I know she was nerfed:
Sartana, Evelyn, Marjana/Azlar, Isarnia, Kadilen

[badassninjadad]

At the risk of putting you into the weeds, I still renew my objection to your double green team. I own two of the greens mentioned and like to raid with them + Hansel or Little John and wreak havoc against blue tanks and/or titans. However. A raid DEF team so constituted is VERY vulnerable to a red-heavy setup, no matter what debuffs or specials you have.

But you are certainly not wrong in searching out high-power stand-alone heroes. Instead of two greens and no yellows, perhaps try and land Delilah (the one I have), Vivaca (can be had via TC20) or the Bruce Lee knock-off. All would strengthen your team and not saddle it with a color weakness.

Best of luck in your E&P adventure!

PS agree with other posters concerning Mushashi and Azlar. I don’t currently have Mushashi, but having raided against him, im not impressed. Azlar, on the other hand, has a special that’s an absolute killer, especially if fired after Isarnia. It goodnight to almost any attacking team after they fire.

[Blbecek]

I wanted to do update, I have few more heroes and mainly I can already ascend some of my 5*s. I don’t want to do bad decision regarding which ones I can ascend and where should be better to wait. Btw I really wanted to get Frida this Atlantis, I got other heroes instead and so I have to play with what I have.

I really want to thank you all for your advices. Airhawk, if I’m not mistaken you have some experience with Aeron and Misandra, how I saw in forums. New thing are classes, some classes are better for tanks than others for example.
I’m staying in high platinum like before, but now I see a lot of tp 4000k+ there.

purple - Aeron, Domitia, Obakan, Quintus - I have all needed materials
yellow - Poseidon, Vivica, Musashi - need 1 darts
blue - Isarnia 4/80, Misandra - need 2 more telescopes for Misandra
green - Evelyn, Atomos - need 3 more tonics
red - Marjana, Khagan - I heve all needed materials

So, which team should be best in defense and in which order?
Who can be my tank - Misandra?
Can I “safely” ascend Aeron and Marjana and I’m not sure about yellow Poseidon or Vivica(when I get last darts) or it will be better to wait little more?

[AirHawk]

Purple - Aeron (can be used both offense and defense) / Domitia if you need a partial tank which I dont think you need
Yellow - Poseidon of course
Blue - Keep Misandra at 3/70 in my opinion (she is good and bad at the same time - the mana boost not really helpful when you need it sometimes)
Green - Evelyn
Red - Marjana

If you have enough emblems, I would give the tank spot to Marjana. Solid fast mana hitter with high health and her talent makes her quite ideal as a tank. I dont like Misandra at tank spot honestly.

[Kerridoc]

I agree with @AirHawk’s recommendations. Poseidon has good tank potential, too; I’m not a big fan of snipers as tanks, but at least his special has a team-wide bonus. Yellow is a good tank color for several reasons, not least of which is that Panther is the rarest of the -elemental debuffers (the others being Falcon, Jackal, Evelyn, and Frida/Arthur).

[Blbecek]

I read that in diamond players have their anti Guin teams - so is yellow tank good idea?
Panther is rare, Hel is pretty good too but maybe there are now more of her after Atlantis. Against Guin are often used mana control heroes and ofc purple color stacking for tile damage. What I read Poseidon is considered not as good as Joon mainly because of his special, which is not considered so useful. Maybe it’s not so true and Poseidon special can prevent using mana control heroes in attack teams?
Aeron can “HOT” heal and prevent using specials, he can be good as flank I think and color is another reason in case of Poseidon as tank.

So setup like this should work or there is some better? (two candidates on tank)
Isarnia, Aeron, Poseidon, Marjana, Evelyn
Isarnia, Aeron, Marjana, Poseidon, Evelyn

Rogue emblems - 172
Fighter emblems - 183

I was never clear on slow heroes position, flank or wing. I read that slow heroes should be flank to have more time to charge. Left side for Isarnia should be better because of defence debuff in case that more heroes can strike in the same turn?
But I can test order of heroes later, which one will be best.

For me it’s important that I can finally “safely” ascend Aeron and Marjana, I’m little tired of waiting for all that materials and heroes.
Thanks for advices AirHawk and Kerridoc!

[TooOldForThis]

Good Point, but honest question… Seems to me, that when stacking I kill the tank with tiles before any specials go off - at least that’s the goal, lol. In that case having the elemental debuff isn’t near as important, I don’t think.

[Kerridoc]

At the top levels, players have the benches to take down every color tank. With a good board, a well-chosen attack team should easily beat any defense. The question is really, if the attacker gets a mediocre board, can the defense dole out punishment? That’s why I’m not a big fan of snipers or healers at tank: they don’t really set back the board/mana development the attacker is working to improve to launch a successful attack.

Guinevere is so successful as a tank because she punishes in three ways: first, she drops all your mana; second, she sets up a sturdy shield against the purple attackers you’ve brought to kill her; and third, she does some healing. The healing is the least of these.

Poseidon is less effective, but that’s true for every hero. His direct strike may one-shot a 4* and will take a 5* pretty far down; second, his mana-shield may undermine/delay an important element of the attacker’s strategy, e.g. the opposing Hel is now either just going to be a weak attacker or be forced to wait out the shielding.

That’s more effective than, say, Marjana, who merely maims one attacker, but likely leaving five attackers alive long enough to attack.

[Blbecek]

I realize that I forgot to thank you @Airhawk and @Kerridoc for your recommendation. I’m using this team in both defense and offense and I really like them

Thank you!