Advanced Farm and Mine Analysis

[Gryphonknight]

@Wharflord

True, but is 1 harpoon every 2.76 days the best use for 15 million food?

That is a very good question. Many people ask this when deciding their budget.

It depends on each person:

@Gryphonknight

Iron or Recruits of Food

This is true of Advanced Mine level 10, Advanced House Level 9 and Advanced Farm Level 10. When prioritizing, you must decide which resource you want to lose the least, and which the most.

In my case, the answer is yes, this is the best use of my food ( see notes )

Note: 1 harpoon every 2.76 days is for illustrating the lost iron. Currently my largest iron sinks are emblems and upgrading my base.

@Wharflord

Furthermore, by improving your titan team you may not have to spend as many items to achieve the same damage.

I am glad you are still improving your titan teams.

We have been fighting 6* titans for 2 years. Most of my alliance is F2P or just VIP Pass. There appears to be a naturally occurring paywall caused by lack of 4* ascension items, and 5* Heroes.

3*+18 / 4*+18 Heroes appear to be more help for class quests, rare quests, and raids, then they do for titans.

Except for 1 harpoon per titan, I fight titans with 1*/ 2* Battle items. My titan battle item budget is fairly lean.

@Wharflord

also giving you more fun heroes to play with

I am glad you still have heroes to level in your roster that add fun new special skills.

I have actually stopped leveling red heroes. Currently I am feeding red 1* / 2* heroes to any color hero with 8/8 special skill.

When I can spend food to trade for/ summon 5* HotM ( or Guardian Falcon ), then I will have to reassess my food budget.

@Wharflord

While it’s impossible to calculate exact numbers

This is very true.

I have a rough idea ( see notes )

Notes

Click for notes

Quotes

@Gryphonknight

food ( 33 million food) as needed.

@Gryphonknight

( 27,954.8 / 4,533 recruits per 5* 4.80 hero ) * 34.6m food per hero = 213m left over food for troops and battle items

@Gryphonknight

102,372 recruits ( see above ) - 43,335 recruits =
( 59,037 / 6,296 recruits per 5* 4.80 hero ) * 17.818m food per hero = 167m food left over for troops and battle items

@Gryphonknight

Emblems and iron

Emblems require clumps of iron. You cannot unlock 1/10 of a class node. I had 6x 4*+14 heroes unlock nodes the same day. This was a huge drain on my iron.

Link

(Troops: keep levelling 1 of each color or level a few of each color? - #7 by Gryphonknight)

FIN

[BarryWuzHere]

@Gryphonknight

We have been fighting 6* titans for 2 years.

I’m assuming you have 4* and 5* heroes from TC20, have the feeders to level them up, but don’t have the ascension mats to finish them.

If so, being in an alliance stuck on 6* titans is holding you back; growth can be faster than that, I’m pretty sure! I’m between 1 and 2 years, decidedly not free, but I was past 6* titans in six months.

[PasasHill]

BTW, I have just looked at the advanced iron storage level 1 to level 2 cost/iron cap increase ratio. It increases total storage by 13k iron, takes 2 days 6 hours to upgrade, and costs 1598k iron. I feel like I am hiring someone to revive Antoni Gaudi to do the job. It`s crazy!

[Gryphonknight]

@BarryWuzHere

If so, being in an alliance stuck on 6* titans is holding you back

I agree 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000x

But that is how the Devs designed titans.

I am more likely to quit than fight 9* titans.

(Search results for '@Gryphonknight team misogyn titan ' - Empires & Puzzles Community Forum)

That is why I suggested Baby titans

([Suggestion] Baby Titan / Second TITAN CHEST for rare (3* only) hero)

[CanadianHotMess]

Do the rules and laws of economics really apply to an infinite resource?

With 4 lvl 20 mines and your tower you max out at approximately 350,000 iron per day.

With that in mind anything done to increase your daily resource maximum is beneficial.

It’s not as if the mines quit production on the weekends or holidays.

[Garanwyn]

@CanadianHotMess

It’s not as if the mines quit production on the weekends or holidays.

They sure do quit when they’re getting upgraded, though.

[CanadianHotMess]

Ok, so the reasoning is that upgrading to get more in the future is bad because of the lack you will get in the time to upgrade?

Doesn’t that just spit in the face of any advancement?

I’m chuckling as I’m contemplating the entirety of this subject.

[Garanwyn]

@CanadianHotMess

Doesn’t that just spit in the face of any advancement?

I’m glad you’ve committed to playing the game for an infinite period. The rest of us, on the other hand, are contemplating the cost-benefit of various upgrade options on the assumption of a finite play length in the game.

@CanadianHotMess

I’m chuckling as I’m contemplating the entirety of this subject.

Not half so hard as I’ll be chuckling if you decide you’re done playing before reaching the break-even point

[CanadianHotMess]

Infinite as in I don’t have a set date for leaving the game. What’s the break even point for the first 20 levels?

[Perilin]

@Vinny00193

So I guess there’s no chance that SG will change the upgrade time on advanced farms & mines?

Or make it so those buildings keep producing while being upgraded.

I honestly don’t see why it doesn’t work like that. All the new upgrades cost so much in resources and time, just making farms and mines keep running while being upgraded wouldn’t be game breaking. It would probably make more people interested in VIP builders. But what do I know, I’m just a pleb

[Birminghamstrong]

Yes it is a waste of time.

[Starlynk]

@BarryWuzHere

Ham opportunity cost payback – “only” 93 days after the full upgrade until my farm has produced more ham than it would have if I’d left it alone.

But most of the profit is from the “free” upgrade from Farm20 to Advanced Farm. For instance, upgrading an advanced farm 9 to advanced farm 10 will take 135 days to recover the lost food during upgrade time.

I think I’ll probably do the lower farm levels soonish, since they’re ok in recovery (31 days for Advanced1 to Advanced2) but hold off the higher levels and prioritize storage since there’s no recovery time.

[Fizban]

While my Stronghold was still upgrading to 21, I read what I could here about upgrade paths, what to prioritize, etc. There is nobody else in my alliance at Stronghold 20 yet, even… it’s just a small group of real life friends. So I didn’t see a point to going with the Hunter’s Lodge > Harpoons at all yet.

Then, I looked at all the advanced buildings, and all of them except Advanced Mine need to use Iron to upgrade them. I spend a little each month to keep VIP going, so I have two builders, but it didn’t seem likely that I’d keep them both working if I had to keep Iron going. So I opted for the building path that let me us Iron for one, and Food for the other.

Aside from the above considerations, I bought into the idea that if you’re ever going to upgrade it, it will always have the same loss of Iron production due to the upgrade downtime, so might as well get it done as soon as possible and benefit from the increased Iron production in the long term.

Thus, my Advanced Mine is currently Lvl 9, and will be Lvl 10 in 6d20h from now.

My other upgrade is… Advanced House to Lvl 9 (not going to bother with Lvl 10), and that will be done in 6d9h. At this point, I’m starting to wonder why I bothered, because I have so dang many recruits already stored in TC11 anyway, but I figured what the heck… maybe I can ease up on 8-7 and just let the recruits roll in from the house.

Here’s a snapshot of my plan after those two finish - the goal is to continue using both Iron and Food as much as possible, by leveling up the Hunter’s Lodge and doing the research for each level.

I figured out what the minimum Iron and Food amounts I’d need along the way, and I just bump up each Adv Storage as needed to get there.

To me, this is all just long-term stuff, anyway. As a completionist, I’ll most likely just keep plugging away at something to get it all done. And unless my real-life group of friends decide to quit the game, I won’t be in an alliance anytime soon where others will be using Harpoons.

All in all… I think it doesn’t really matter if I squeeze every ounce of efficiency out of my path. I get that it’s fun for others to do that, but I’ve already done enough “work” in my calculations, I don’t need to take it further and worry about it. That’s what my job is for, heh heh.

EDIT: When it’s all said and done… when it’s time to get all those other upgrades rolling, my Adv Mine 10 will restock my Iron just a little quicker.

Good gaming!

[JohnASr69]

Braga, magnificent I did not have any proof but my 60 yr o!d gut told me to be careful about that. I knew with all the intelligence that we have with this group that someone would work on it . excellent job and not just because you my gut better (LOL). I told you I was 60.

[Gryphonknight]

Fixed Opportunity costs and situational costs

@Ultra

Same with energy saving devices and sources. Even with the light bulbs, from fluorescent to LEDs; airconditioners and refrigerators are currently using inverted technology. That is the very reason why we upgrade things in homes and in the office.

I agree.

And the situation will never improve.

I remember when I first started upgrading to LED lighting for cold areas and high ON/OFF fixtures ( ideal for LED lighting, see notes ). I did not upgrade my hot area, low ON/OFF fixtures since the opportunity cost would go down with mass adoption.

That will not happen with Advanced Buildings. Opportunity costs are fixed. Situational costs are fixed.

Lack of alternates

Alternates to LED bulbs where created.

Plants that made incandescent bulbs using nitrogen and tungsten simply replaced the filament with a small halogen bulb, using the glass envelop to prevent fires and support lamp shades.

That will not happen with Advanced Buildings. There are no alternatives to Advanced Buildings.

Maximum levels

I will be upgrading all my buildings to maximum level except for my camps ( 3x Level 20, 1x Level 11 ), Advanced House ( Level 9 ), Hunter’s Lodge ( Level 4 ) and rumored Alchemy Lab.

The order I upgrade depends on my play style, but delaying the upgrades only costs resources.

Stronghold 21 Implementation

If I was starting the game today, I would only upgrade 1x Forge Level 17, 1x House Level 20, and 2x Training Camps Level 20 since most of the tiny benefits from 4x Forge Level 20, 4x House Level 20 and 4x Training camps Level 20 are lost with the way the Devs implementated the new Stronghold 21.

Notes

Click for notes

yes but the LED lighting lasts as long as freezer case, (so you completely eliminate your maintenance cost related to the lighting) and by installing 50% less wattage you introduce 50% less heat load so your refrigeration load is less, thus less energy… The reality is that the energy savings associated with JUST the lighting is the smallest component of the payback.’

( https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterdetwiler/2013/09/30/walmart-ge-and-lighting-a-case-study-in-market-transformation/amp/ )

FIN

[anon82149927]

It just goes to show how lazy this implementation of advanced buildings has been. Slap on some exponential time progression, copy 10 levels, give laughable increases, done.

Im prioritizing storages. When ill be in a situation with an excess of iron and ham and no long term use for each, then ill upgrade farm and mine. But as is, everything else is a priority. It unbelievably stupid that advanced farms and mines cannot produce while being upgraded. For this reason alone i say ditch that crap and do it when you are really in a surplus. The dramatically forever lost iron and ham is really not worth crippling yourself, even in the short term.

[Swiftbow]

I think your numbers are wrong. I calculate a MUCH longer time period to recover the lost production.
http://swiftbow.com/Downloads/Empires&PuzzlesPublic.xls

[Swiftbow]

Huh, I guess we can’t edit? I just made my account.

I’ve been wondering if I made some kind of logical error in my calculations. It SEEMS to make sense, but no one else has really reviewed it. I don’t see the full extent of the equations in the OPs spreadsheet, or maybe I’m missing it?

[Starlynk]

@Gryphonknight

If I was starting the game today, I would only upgrade 1x Forge Level 17, 1x House Level 20, and 2x Training Camps Level 20 since most of the tiny benefits from 4x Forge Level 20, 4x House Level 20 and 4x Training camps Level 20 are lost with the way the Devs implementated the new Stronghold 21.

haha this is exactly what I actually did. I have 1 forge at 17, the others only to 5 to be able to change them into alternate buildings. 2 training camps lvl 20, 2 training camps lvl 11. Only 1 house to 20 (actually advanced house 2 now). I guess I’ll upgrade the other houses when I run out of other things to upgrade, but I’m guessing that’ll take a while with the advanced buildings.

[Ser_Dit]

You should add lost profit ( 4,4kk food and 5.1kk iron) to calculation.