Lol, same mentality i had when i stated, “I guess I’m a whale.”

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No, the gap will remain the same. The percentage in attack and defense increase is actually similar, thus the damage remain unchanged. Meanwhile, the hp is increased which meand the % ammount of hp lost is lesser and it will prolong the battle.

When they already use all 5* in their war attack team, limit breaking 4* won’t imporve their attack team. But those who still use 4* in their war team can still benefit from it.

When those who already fully use 5* in war team finish second run of 5* (10 heroes in their war team), those whose war team still heavily dependent on 4* will already finish first run of 5* and 3 to 4 run of 4* (20-25 heroes in their war team).

There is a special skill calculation in the other thread that I linked.

C’mon yelnats, You can’t have the cake and eat it too.

The gap does not remain the same if your team is mostly 4*
This is for people:

Right…?

The "whales" S4 5* and circus freaks will still be stronger than your 4*. Waste all the LB you like.

The gap will continue to widen as the "whales" continue to LB

Or are you back to comparing 5* to other 5* again? In which case…

It’s still not an advantage. It’s another grind/requirement in order to keep competing at the level you are.
And F2P won’t keep up.

Not like they can with 4* either

Until eventually… 7* heroes everywhere!

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Let me use my war team for example. I no longer relly heavily in 4* but 40% (12) of my war team is still 4*.

Now compare it to a P2P whose war team is consisted solely of 5*.

Now lets assume that my aether rate is only 75% of that P2P.

Based on quest, the rate of 4* aether is 6× of 5* aether while the rate of 3* aether is 13× of 5* aether.

To limit break a 5*, you need 5× 5* aether + 20× 4* aether + 35× 3* aether
To limit break a 4*, you need 5× 4* aether + 20× 3* aether

To limit break a 5* costume, you need extra 5× 3* aether
To limit break a 4* costume, you need extra 3× 3* aether

Can that P2P limit break more heroes than me? Obviously, but only the 5* count as that P2P no longer use 4* in war team. The same way, only 12 of my 4* count.

At the time that P2P limit break 2nd set of 5*

When that P2P able to limit break 2nd set of 5*, that means they already get (each color):
10× 5* aether
60× 4* aether
130× 3* aether

While I only get (rounded down):
7× 5* aether
45× 4* aether
97× 3* aether

That is enough for me to limit break 1 set of 5* + 3 set of 4* which is 5× 5* heroes + 15× 4* heroes. However 3 of the 4* is not part of the war team.

Overall, the heroes in the war team that got improved are:
That P2P: 10× 5* heroes
Me: 5× 5* heroes + 12× 4* heroes

Suppose the 5* heroes of that P2P is prime heroes which have 52 power increase, while my regular 4* have 48 power increase, costumed 4* and regular 5* heroes have 50 power increase, it will translate to:

Cummulative war attack power increase:
That P2P: 10 × 52 = 520
Me: 5 × 50 + 12 × 48 = 826

War defense power increase:
That P2P: 5 × 52 = 260
Me: 5 × 50 = 250

They have 260 - 250 = 10 more war defense power increase compared to me, but on average, I have (826 - 520) / 6 = 51 more attack power increase compared to them.

At the time that P2P limit break 4th set of 5*

When that P2P able to limit break 2nd set of 5*, that means they already get (each color):
20× 5* aether
120× 4* aether
260× 3* aether

While I only get:
15× 5* aether
90× 4* aether
195× 3* aether

That is enough for me to limit break 3 set of 5* + all 12 of 4* (even with the costume of 5 4* which I use) which is 15× 5* heroes + 12× 4* heroes.

Overall, the heroes in the war team that got improved are:
That P2P: 20× 5* heroes
Me: 15× 5* heroes + 12× 4* heroes

Suppose the 5* heroes of that P2P is prime heroes which have 52 power increase, while my regular 4* have 48 power increase, costumed 4* and regular 5* heroes have 50 power increase, it will translate to:

Cummulative war attack power increase:
That P2P: 20 × 52 = 1040
Me: 15 × 50 + 5 × 50 + 7 × 48 = 1336

War defense power increase:
That P2P: 5 × 52 = 260
Me: 5 × 50 = 250

They have 260 - 250 = 10 more war defense power increase compared to me, but on average, I have (1336 - 1040) / 6 = 49 more attack power increase compared to them.

There’s two 4* off the top of my head that have skills comparable to a 5*

Unfortunately one of them, C. Rigard is a costume… ah oh…
Now you have to LB twice!

There are a handful of 4* that have very nice synergies with some other 5* and still make many war flags despite have 50+ 5* max level.

Unfortunately… they are also mostly costumes. Other than that. I don’t see most 4* as giving you the edge in any of the current metas, that are about to compound.

But we’ll see. You sound primed to enjoy the extra grind, for that F2P edge

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Continuing:

After All have limit break

Suppose the 5* heroes of that P2P is prime heroes which have 52 power increase, while my costumed 4* and regular 5* heroes only have 50 power increase, it will translate to:

Cummulative war attack power increase:
That P2P: 30 × 52 = 1560
Me: 1 × 52 + 17 × 50 + 5 × 50 + 7 × 48 = 1488 (one of the 5* has costume)

War defense power increase:
That P2P: 5 × 52 = 260
Me: 4 × 50 + 1 × 52 = 252 (one of the 5* has costume)

At first, seemingly that P2P have more increase, but we must compare it relative to pre emblem.

That P2P war defense was 4850, 260 increase is equal to 5.36%
My war defense was 4734, 252 increase is equal to 5.32%

So the war defense power increase is roughly similar.

That P2P cummulative attack power was 4850 × 6 = 29100, so 1560 increase is equal to 5.36%
My cummulative attack power was 26031, so 1488 is equal to 5.72%

This is higher because 4* actually have larger % stat increase than 5*.

Yeah, unfortunately I don’t have his costume…

Anyway, have you heard that aether for costume just get reduced? So that previous calculation actually already assuming 4* costume (I just edit it to be clearer).

Now costume only need 3* aether.

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Yes, Aether requirements for costumes were reduced. Significantly.

I doubt this move was to appease players. It’s probably in line with incoming non S1 costumes, to make it easier for players, who already have those non S1 heroes, and managed to get their costumes, to upgrade their non S1 costumed hero.

No it will not. The gap will grow. Especially stat wise. You’re thinking from a perspective where you will defend your stance no matter how incorrect it is.

Gap still widens in the whales favor We aren’t discussing usefulness of LB. We are talking about the gap between whales rosters and F2P and low cost to play. Your 4* LB heroes won’t come close to S3, Ninja, S4, and new event heroes. Plain and simple. Gap widens. It’s not hard to understand

No. not even close.

Don’t need calculation. I know the special skill of almost every hero in the game. Again, you are thinking of small aspects. You are not seeing the whole picture.

Now I’m done talking about it. It’s like talking to a wall.

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In a way that instead of spending money to somehow make their heroes stronger, they will have something else to grind on in order to have something more to do the same. Don’t know if I made my self clear. In portuguese is a lot easier

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Is there any mat, emblem, summon tokens of all seasons, summon portals, (anything at all) that you cannot buy in the game? Do you think it will be any different with the LBs?

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I am specifically talking about AW team, not whole roster.

Didn’t you read my calculated simulation based on my roster which only use 12 4*?

You cannot look into big picture without first looking at the detail. First of all, special damage is linked to stat by this formula:

Att = %damage special × attacker’s attack stat
Def = defender’s defense stat

Stat change by LB:

Nb: I am not including 20% defender bonus, emblem or troop to simplify the calculation

New lets compare Killhare damage to no costume Vivica:

Pre-LB:
Damage = 100 × (300% × 741 / 694) ^ 1.35 = 481
% of Vivica HP reduced = 481 / 1328 = 36.2%

Post-LB:
Damage = 100 × (300% × 741 × 107.61% / (694 × 107.61%)) ^ 1.35 = 481
% of Vivica HP reduced = 481 / (1328 × 107.61%) = 33.7%

After both get LB, damage remain unchanged but Killhare skill will cut less portion from Vivica’s HP.

New lets compare Killhare damage to no costume Rigard:

Pre-LB:
Damage = 100 × (300% × 741 / 673) ^ 1.35
= 501
% of Rigard HP reduced = 501 / 1166 = 43%

Post-LB:
Damage = 100 × (300% × 741 × 107.61% / (673 × 108.63%)) ^ 1.35
= 495
% of Rigard HP reduced = 495 / (1166 × 108.63%) = 39%

After both get LB, not only damage toward Rigard is reduced, Killhare skill will also cut less portion from Rigard’s HP.

Now lets move toward bigger picture:

You might claim that P2P will have more heroes that have limit break. But you need to remember that this is talking about AW team. Even if the P2P limit break more heroes, it doesn’t matter if that hero is not on AW team.

Look at this calculation on how my AW team will compare to P2P with full 5* AW team after that P2P manage to limit break 10× 5*:

Both of our defense have limit break but that P2P only have 10 heroes who have limit break on the attack team while I have 17.

It means 20 of that P2P heroes have portion of their HP cut more by my defense team compared to before LB while only 10 have portion of their HP cut less by my defense team compared to before LB.

On the other hand, only 13 of my heroes have portion of their HP cut more by that P2P defense team compared to before LB while 17 have portion of their HP cut less by that P2P defense team compared to before LB.

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Your calculations seem fine…but the reverse applies too.

Yes Vivica and rigard will be harder to kill…but killhare will be much harder to kill too(with who ever you have) because killhare HP/DEF is also going to be going up.

Both sides will be harder to kill if they are both LB.

But just like it was before - newer heros will do more damage than older heros and will kill older heros faster than older killing newer. Newer hero skills are also typically better. And that’s not factoring in all the bonuses newer heros have such as passives, elemental links, family bonus, season bonus etc.

Yes, and that is the reason I favor this part. My battling style is not fast & luck based mono approach but slow tactical approach. So it suit my style. This is personal style though. Edit: I just realize this us incorrect term, it should have been puzzle damage rellying vs skill rellying.

Nb: this is the reason why Noor fit my team… and why I sometimes value 4* cleanser/dispeller more than 5*.

One thing that always confuses me in this game is how people can complain about an F2P / P2P gap. There is not one singular spot in this game where singularly having a paid account immediately provides you rewards over someone who doesn’t. There are no competitive PVP rewards. My 2500 cups means nothing to someone have 2700 cups. It provides neither of us any in game benefit. PvE game wide events are always percentage based, so it’s highly unlikely a P2P player is going to affect your final outcome that much. Even if the game had no in app purchases whatsoever, you’d still be affected by RNG. War is a team event, so it’s unlikely to affect you.

All limit breakers are doing is helping everyone get more materials by being able to compete more PVE events like quests and titans. It’s actually going to lead to more mats, not less. Until this game actually has PvP season and leaderboard rewards…the gap between P2P and PvP is meaningless. This is primarily a PvE game.

I did not.

Hero damage will remain mostly the same but heroes’s HP are increased which means this is true:

This fit to my battle style as I don’t relly heavily in puzzle damage as in mono.

By having around 10% more hp, it gives extra time to get enough puzzle to cast the skill. So it favor those whose battling style relly on skill instead of puzzle damage.

This is also the reason why I love rush attack war because it allow me to relly on skill instead of puzzle damage. My succes rate is better at rush attack war than other rule despite only using 5 slow heroes in total while my alliance teammate who relly on mono struggle during rush attack war despite using more slow heroes. For the record, my alliance have 100% win rate in rush attack war and my succes rate in rush attack war is above 90%. My alliance might not be top tier who face all Alfrike tank, but I am one of the members who deal with those Alfrike tank.

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I share my strategy and approach to help those who still relly on 4* yet you accuse me of baiting and trolling.

What is the benefit for me baiting and trolling?

When SG propose bad update I criticize them, when I see something good, I praise them, when I see someting that have good and bad like this LB feature, I said them both.

FYI, during the non-S1 costume saga I have been kicked out of this forum for 2 weeks for heavily criticizing non-S1 costume.

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My point was, what they are calling ‘game economy’ is obviously the game income for the company. I don’t think that would be adversely affected if they made ascension mats more available, as the offset is people would feel more comfortable spending more on hero summons if they knew it was easier to get the mats to ascend and use them…that’s all.

The fact that they are unwilling to try it…because they think they already know the outcome, but want to try limit breakers to ‘test’ it shows me they aren’t really willing to listen on some things.

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I think that actually one good thing, and I don’t think this will be good for SG, is people with already deep decks can spend less because there is no need to chase new heroes when you can improve the ones you got. I think it would be hilarious and wonderful shadenfraude if SG losses tons of money because people realize they can just work on the heroes they have. And new players realize they’ll never catch the vets and don’t bother. Here is hoping the LM are a success!

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He’s not trolling. He believes.
But more importantly he is preaching to middle class players.

However the amount of assumptions will spoil the math. Such as Rigard vs Vivica:

Which is a funny comparison… for a very low def 5* hero
compared with a high def 4*

Rigard takes 6 less damage when both are LB.

Vivica takes 14 less than Rigard.
But… also has much greater, over-all def and hp for all the slash and other skill attacks from Killhare’s allies.

And the simulation assumption for how much LB material he has completely disregards the actual leveling afterwards. Where so-called "whales" will complete the added 5 levels before he can finish a regular-unbroken 3*
Due to their glut of pulls where roster space (and money…) is disregarded by them!

Not to mention the simulation number won’t look anything like that. As he bleeds the same material needed to break 5* just to break a hero that won’t have the power of a base 5* later.
"whales" will have much higher numbers!

The end result will be this:

Rather than give the middle base a solid pathway for progress. His methodology will trap them there!

The same reason why at level 79. He’s not up top. Too many blemmed 3*

Their lack of 7* heroes
Will more likely have a receding effect

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I may be in the minority on this. And it wouldn’t be the first time that I’ve spoken out of place. I have got to say something though, everybody has been complaining about something that isn’t even live yet. Yes it will be a challenge, yes it’s something new, yes it may or may not be fair to everyone ; but it is what it is. All the complaining in the world is not going to change it and all it will do is create drama & even more animosity than this issue has originally done. Have u all forgotten why we play? We play this game for the social aspect of it, the chance and thrill of a hero/win. some are competitive and if you’re competitive it’s not going to change anything ,you spend already so you will continue to spend. If you are free to play or cheap to play you will continue going on the same road maybe cut back more or pay more. My point is all of this bickering will solve nothing, but it will create an environment of negativity. Just find the fun and move on.
Rant over

Love Me Or Hate Me I will always win. If you hate me I will always be on your mind, if you love me I’ll always be in your heart.

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