Ability to Train all Season Heroes (Not just S1)

There needs to be a way to grind it out to get free Season 2 and beyond heroes. Possibly expand the training camp in 10+ level increments or once a player unlocks each (or completes) a new season they can train those heroes (at reduced odds). To be fair to the whales and PTP individuals HotM, seasonal (winter, spring, etc), and event heroes can only be summoned ( or traded via the assumed abilities of the highly anticipated Hero Academy). The main distinction being that you can play season 2 or season 3 whenever you want where as events and HotM are within fixed time frames. I’ve been playing long enough now that TC20 only provides high level feeder heroes and duplicate 5 star heroes that I hope to consume in the Hero Academy for something fresh.

Between some perception on what Hero academy will provide as well as Olomor’s thoughts on TC 21-25 I believe there are existing threads for this concept.

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So most of the discussion around HA are training existing heroes for the same type and likely involve gems. This is similar to the advanced training camp initial discussion but focus more on s2+. The other distinction is that I am asking about the possibility of unlocking S2+ heroes with the existing TC levels based on some in game achievement (open a new season or completing a new season). Nuance but I think that is my distinction on the thread.

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It could be, I assumed you also wanted HotMs included. Since the threads are massive, let me link you to some parts of the conversation that may help focus your thread in a clearly unique perspective as opposed to just nuanced.

I’m pro the idea. I just don’t want it to be ignored/unlisted to oblivion without adding your voice to the proper collection of forum voices (if it’s not deemed distinct enough)

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I might leave this thread as is rather than merging it elsewhere – depending on how the Hero Academy is implemented (we can only hope that’s sometime soon), this idea may be able to stand on its own.

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So basically you want a way for free players to be able to obtain all heroes for free, one way or another.

This isn’t fair to whales, this is a huge fat middle finger held to them. SG’s revenue would drop by like 90% and the game would die.

Stop being greedy and feeling entitled to having the same heroes others who spend thousands of dollars do. Play with what you have.

Then I’d like to just clarify that it provide training capacity for inactive seasons. So for example S3 is still be released month to month so they wouldn’t be trainable but S2 would at this time. Then if it continues to a S4 or beyond additional tiers of training would be added to incorporate inactive season.

Not really suggesting this because I want restrictions, but rather I feel a scenario like this provides proper balance between whales/higher budget players vs. f2p.

the only way this works is if s4 and beyond has powercreep on the level of the difference between GM/Ursena/Telluria vs Quintus/Obakan/Thorne.

But we all know what players here think about power-creep.

Otherwise, why would anyone spend money, when I can just get equally good heroes for free? And I’ll just be able to get those new heroes in a few months, is that really worth hundreds or thousands of dollars per month?

Unless you’re a deca-millionaire+ where money is no object, I think spending is going to drop significantly.

I’ve gotten lots of Season 2 heroes as well as a few from Season 3 from grinding and I intend to tomorrow as well. It’s not the same kind of grinding as we do on our base, but they are free.

“event heroes can only be summoned ( or traded via the assumed abilities of the highly anticipated Hero Academy).”

To clarify this statement the types of taids in mind are 1:1 so HotM for another HotM not S1 for HotM. So you would already have spent good money to have something to trade for. This is my understanding of what Hero Academy is going to be.

I don’t think that this is about greed at all. Since Atlantis coins are now only available from Season 2 stages and Unique Enemies during Atlantis Rises, it’s now more difficult to summon season two heroes. Being able to get season 2 heroes from TC would return some balance. Perhaps they could be more rare than season 1 heroes, but there definitely needs to be a way to get them for free. This wouldn’t really hurt the P2P players because the rate of TC20 would naturally keep the numbers low, provided that the percentages were well balanced. Also keep in mind that with season 3 out now, P2P players are going to be out-pacing F2P even more with a slew of new heroes, so I really don’t see how this equates to any sense of entitlement to ask that season 2 be made available in the TC.

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Why? How is that not about greed? Isn’t that the exact definition of greed? Others spend thousands of dollars to get a season 2 hero. You think it must be able to be obtained for free (let alone the fact that it still is; you can still get atlantis coins from AR and also use gems which can be obtained for free).

Do you think Lambourghini should give you a rare chance to allow you to get a lambourghini for free?

Do you think the government should offer you a chance for a free house?

And you’re just being disingenuous. With valhalla coins, you now have MORE chances for a non-s1 5 star hero. and yet you’re complaining that “atlantis coins were removed, our chances are lower”. Seriously? Let’s just remove s3 and remove valhalla coins then.

p2w players are heavily damaged by your suggestion because s3 heroes aren’t stronger than s2 heroes. I’d prefer most s2 heroes over s3. So by making s2 free, you’re essentially completely taking away p2w players’ advantage, the only reason left to spend is for collection purposes. Which means 90% reduced income for SG which means the game dies.

It’s not about greed because the P2W players would also be getting the free S2 heroes at the same time. Maybe “free” is the wrong word to use then, because it implies that the player didn’t invest resources and time into building up TC 20, farming the recruits, and committing the ham to training and leveling said heroes.
Also, I’m being disingenuous? This is an academic discussion about balance in the game, so maybe stop with the accusations and stay on topic. If anything, your assertion that my suggestion would result in “completely taking away p2w players’ advantage” is hyperbolic, to say the least. 90% reduced income? Rather exaggerated.

Right, so no one spends money, game dies.

Also, just because you demand the entire world gets free lambos and mansions, doesn’t mean it’s not “greed”.

Uh, no it isn’t? It’s a casual discussion on why or why not free players should be able to get heroes others paid thousands of dollars for.

Which really has nothing to do with “balance”. Why should you be balanced with people who spend thousands of dollars?

Heya @bobiscool , I enjoy your posts (and find myself agreeing with many of them).

And I totally understand that SG depends on whales for their revenue… wouldn’t be fair to totally screw them over by giving away every hero for free to everyone after they spent a bunch of money.

However…

That’s… kind of… excessive… isn’t it?

I know, I know… “gacha” game… that’s just how it works.

I don’t typically play these kinds of games. I usually play games where you buy the game and you play it, and whoever plays it the best and the longest, gets all the best stuff (eventually, provided they have the skill and the dedication).

Pay to win and RNG summons are new territory for me, and I’m still trying to get used to it all… I’m still not a fan of the whole system (though I am a fan of the game itself). I suppose I shouldn’t complain… (don’t like it? don’t play; etc.)

Yet here I am torn. I am torn because I like the game, and the devs do need a source of revenue. And the people who spent tons of money on the game should absolutely be able to feel like they got their money’s worth. So we can’t exactly just start giving away everything for free, now, after thousands of players have already invested so much… but at the same time, if the precedent is set in stone that the only way that the average player has a decent chance of pulling the best heroes is by spending a ton of money, the game at that point kind of becomes “all about the money” and who has the most to spend. Which I suppose is fine if the majority of the playerbase is in agreement on that system? But it does kind of detract from the whole skill element of the game, not to mention severely limiting the progress for players who can’t necessarily afford to spend that much…

Of course, though, as you point out… you take away the shiny carrot on the stick, people will stop paying to chase it. And since this game’s revenue depends on big spenders chasing shiny carrots… it’s probably too late to try to change the system now without potentially bankrupting the devs. (there are certainly other ways for video games to be financially successful without such gimmicks, but as that system is kind of permanently sewed into the very fabric of this game, it’s probably a little late to try putting that cat back into the bag)

I don’t even know what my original point was. I guess it was something like “not everyone thinks that their success in a game should be dependent on how much they’re willing or able to spend (and/or how lucky they are)”… but this is a gacha game, and that’s how it works here. It shouldn’t come as a surprise that some of us kinda think that system is bull, but ultimately it’s up to us individual players to either accept that fact, or move on to something else. :man_shrugging:

The complaints and suggestions about adjusting prices, summons, hero balance etc. are not going to just go away, though. Even those who have spent thousands of dollars are going to have complaints, as long as the system continues to be based on sticks and shiny carrots.

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You sound like you’re getting pretty worked up for someone having a “casual” discussion. Love the lambos and mansions reference by the way. Your exaggerations don’t help you make your case one bit. If you think that giving f2p players the opportunity to pull a few S2 heroes from TC20 is the equivalent of giving away the farm, then there’s really no point in continuing this “discussion” just so you can rant some more about things that you made up in your head about other peoples motives.

Great post, i agree with every single word you said.

I am not a p2w player, I’ve only ever spent money on 2 games in my entire life. I feel like I always consider things from the f2p perspective;

I actually enjoy gacha games, because they allow f2p players, however small, a chance to get everything in the game.

There are plenty of games where there is locked access to premium features that can never be obtained by free players. Do we think it’s reasonable to demand those features to be opened up to free players in those games?

As an f2p player, if I didn’t like how a game was treating f2p players, I’d simply move on and play another game. Most of the time, that’s with games that artificially limits the progress of a f2p player (last level of a building requires a huge amount of gems to build, etc).

I think E&P is actually quite good for f2p players. If it was made even more in favor of f2p players, the incentive to pay is significantly lowered.

I don’t necessarily think one should spend thousands of dollars a month on a game unless you were worth north of 10 million dollars; but, because people do so, I think their money should be valued. I don’t spend nearly that much myself, but I’m not going to stick a middle finger to those whales. I value the money they spent, and I think they deserve to have access to much more features than I do.

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I mean, I’ve pretty much refuted all of your guys’ arguments, and you’ve not made any logical counter-arguments (go search up the meaning of the word greedy; none of your rebuttals make sense in context) so… it’s not really me making a case, more of you guys not having an actual argument :man_shrugging:

I mean, if you don’t think this is being greedy, what’s your idea of greedy? What would you have to say/demand in order to qualify as “greedy”?

And about accusations… I wonder who’s making the accusations here :wink: It’s fine if you feel like you don’t have any valid arguments and thus have nothing else to say, I can respect that.

Greed: a selfish and excessive desire for more of something (such as money) than is needed.

Looking at the diamond teams that I play they rarely have a S1 hero on the roster. Heck I even see the occasional platinum roster be S1 free. Season 1 heroes are essentially useless now. I also did not ask for everything to be free, only season heroes. I do like the concession of the latest season not be TC available. I suppose I miss the excitement of something shiny from TC20, hell even my five stars I get from there are feeders now, so many duplicates. And as someelse said you would still have to earn it with time from hours of mindless grinding.

No accusations. Just facts. You’re calling other people greedy without knowing their motivations. FWIW, I’m not a f2p player. I’ve got a lot of skin in the game, so this isn’t about me personally. For the long term health of the game, there has to be a balance between bringing new players in and keeping if fun, and keeping up a revenue stream for the company. I have nothing against SG making money, but the fact remains that it is now LESS likely for f2p to get a S2 hero, and that hurts the game overall, in my opinion. As to whether or not you’ve refuted my arguments, you can claim that, but I can just as easily claim otherwise and now we’re at an impasse. At the end of the day, greed is a relative term. If you think it’s greedy, so be it. I disagree. I suspect that there are plenty of people who would agree on both sides, but it doesn’t prove anything. Ultimately SG will be the ones to decide what’s fair and what isn’t.

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