A Possible Solution to Hero Balancing

[Cpt.Ahab]

Much of the discussion around game balance seems to center around nerfing or buffing individual heroes, and particularly lagging behind their peers seem to be the slow-mana, AoE attackers. Fast mana, single-target hitters like Magni and Sartana and Joon are able to snipe opponents quickly, while the Quintuses and Horghalls and Justices of the world die before even getting a chance to activate.

One possible solution could be to incrementally lower the overall attack damage of everything in the game, making it harder to one- or two-shot heroes and all but impossible to kill them with just six or seven tiles.

Everyone would live longer (say, 10-20% longer) and average and slower attackers would have a much higher likelihood of actually contributing meaningfully to battles. Fast mana heroes would still hit harder and quicker and may still be dominant, but the effects of other heroes would at least be felt. The game as a whole may be more balanced, with a greater diversity of desirable, viable heroes, and a lot less disappointment on the part of players not able to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars to get the handful of heroes who tower unequivocally over all the rest. The best heroes would likely as not remain the same, but the separation between them and the rest of the legendaries would not be quite so pronounced, and the game as a whole would see a marked increase in strategy.

The game timer may need to be adjusted, since battles would unquestionably run a little longer, and there would remain a few legendaries clearly in need of a bit of buffing (Elkanen, Leonidas, Thorne, etc.), but on the whole this might be a better solution to the problem of hero balancing and diversity overall.

Of course, it’s possible what I’m suggesting wouldn’t help or would be more difficult to implement than I imagine. (I wouldn’t lower the attack “rating” of all heroes; I imagine it’d be easier to simply adjust the damage calculus that we, as players, don’t see.) I am curious though what others think.

(@Rook and @Coppersky, I’m not sure where this post best fits, in General or Ideas or the Beta forum; please feel free to move it wherever you think it most appropriate, and forgive me if I’ve misplaced it here.)

[Rook]

I like what you said. I’m curious why I cannot “like” it as usual (the heart button is missing for me).

This location is fine.

[kahree]

@Rook

I’m curious why I cannot “like” it as usual (the heart button is missing for me).

@Rook from what I’m seeing we can’t like any first post in the ‘Ideas & Feature Requests’ category. Guess we’re supposed to vote on them.

[Rook]

Fair over. I guess accurate titles will be really important in this section.

[Cpt.Ahab]

I wonder how much the new class system will serve to balance the game in a way similar to the one I outlined above. With higher defenses and more hit points, slower heroes should see an upswing in viability. (True, attack stats will rise as well, but with the way defenses are calculated, battles will nonetheless take longer.) With the emphasis on mana generation to boost troops and skills, things should improve for slow heroes quite a bit, though it’s going to take months, at best, before we might see the difference.

Unfortunately, with the addition of very fast heroes, the trend toward faster heroes and quicker battles has also been exacerbated, and it’s increasingly unlikely that players will choose to invest resources in heroes that are so roundly considered inferior.

Maybe a game-wide tweak to attack damage, even if it’s just to lower the effect 5-10%, would be worth testing?

[Olmor]

They want us to summon new heroes all the time.
Therefore heroes are getting better and better in small steps.

I haven’t hope for changing this.
Meanwhile even average mana is a criteria to use another one with less dmg but faster load.

Bet sooner or later there will be superfasts charged every 5 tiles.

And will us keep pulling…

[NDarkNS]

That’s my issue. As new heros come out, old heros become obsolete. I for one like few of my 3* heros. If stats drop across the board they will still be obsolete. I like the idea of power drop, but only for 4 or 5 star heros. I made a post about how inferior 3* heros are and would be disappointed if they were affected. All new players rely on 3*.

[Cpt.Ahab]

Agreed, Ndark, insofar as I think lower tier heroes should see greater ceiling increases from class investment than legendaries, but it looks like the devs went the route of instead just making legendaries take longer (much longer) to max out. Hopefully it works. Nonetheless, I’d still like to see rare and epic heroes also see their CP ceilings raised further.

All of that aside though, I don’t think it’s true that as new heroes come out, older ones become obsolete. Lianna, Magni, Sartana, Joon, and Marj are all still top flight heroes that you’ll find ubiquitous across the leaderboard. Horghall and Quintus and Justice and Guardian Owl and Boss Wolf not so much.

If matches didn’t end so quickly, I have a feeling much of this imbalance would go away. Faster heroes would still have the advantage of hitting more quickly and more often, but slow heroes would at least have a much greater chance to actually get their specials off and affect battles.

[ExumDark]

Hay alguna probabilidad de que así como se “empareja” para la guerra de alianzas, se empareje también para los asaltos? Me parece pésimo que no pueda ganar a equipos con menos puntos que el mio, como así también no me parece justo ganar a equipos con más puntos que el mio… Mi equipo es de más de 2500 y en 6 asaltos hoy día no he podido ganar con equipos de 2300… Estoy hablando de 6 asaltos y no gané 1 solo… Es injusto…

[Resol]

Translating @ExumDark the forums default language is English.

@ExumDark

Hay alguna probabilidad de que así como se “empareja” para la guerra de alianzas, se empareje también para los asaltos? Me parece pésimo que no pueda ganar a equipos con menos puntos que el mio, como así también no me parece justo ganar a equipos con más puntos que el mio… Mi equipo es de más de 2500 y en 6 asaltos hoy día no he podido ganar con equipos de 2300… Estoy hablando de 6 asaltos y no gané 1 solo… Es injusto…

Is there any likelihood that just as it is “matched” for the alliance war, is it also matched for the assaults? It seems lousy that I can not win teams with fewer points than mine, as well as it does not seem fair to win teams with more points than mine … My team is over 2500 and in 6 rounds today I could not win with teams of 2300 … I’m talking about 6 rounds and I did not win 1 single … It’s unfair …

[Cpt.Ahab]

I’d like to kick the tires on this old idea, as I think it would greatly help a lot of the frustration with the newer, even faster, even more powerful heroes. (I’m looking at you, Frigg and Odin and Finley and Jabbers and the ninjas.)

If the overall damage in the game was scaled back—not by adjusting the visible stats but by a little tinkering under the hood—lowering all raid and war damage by, say, 10 or 20%, then combats would run longer and average and slow and (god bless them) very slow heroes would at least have a fighting chance to fire before dying, greatly improving their viability. This would up the diversity and strategic considerations of heroes in the game and would likely help to lessen the impact of these overpowered fast strikers.

One of the worst parts of raiding and wars is feeling like the entirety of the match was decided by the opening board and the first 2-3 tile moves. This would greatly reduce that frustration.

@Petri , @JonahTheBard , @zephyr1, has anything like this been explored? Seems like something that the beta community could review fairly easily, if it’s feasible logistically.