1.12 - Discussion & Feedback

So what is the explanation of the loot suddenly being better now in diamond?

Again like I said earlier, this only applies to those in diamond tier. The way Cups are meant to work is people strive to take them from those with more trophies, to advance to higher tiers… And get that better loot.

The way the game now works is that only those who have already spent considerable time (and most likely money) in the game get to reap those rewards, to continue and increase the gap by getting those enhanced rewards. You act like maintaining over 2300 trophies is a walk in the park… Like it’s a no brainer. If that was the case for most people, it would simply take place. No one would argue over the value of raiding in any other tier because no one would need to.

Fact is those tires exist for a reason, we can’t all get decent rewards… And since most of us can’t get anything rewarding now the problem is trophies don’t matter. Not to me, not to those stuck trying to get to a point where diamond is possible. Not to those newer than me still trying to even make it to where I am now.

When only the top 100 get treated as though they matter - them the player base will continue to respond with questions as to the value of trophies. And you’re only going to keep being a broken record as to how it helps only the elite players further lowering their value to us.

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I don’t know. I think the two most obvious possibilities are:

  1. It’s not systematically better than it was: nothing has changed. I just happen to have had a run of rich targets.

  2. Perhaps we’re already starting to see a different environment in the diamond tier, with players fielding stronger defensive teams, being attacked less frequently, and accumulating more resources in their watchtowers to be stolen.

If I had to bet right now, I’d bet on the first.

Incorrect. Gold is better than silver. Platinum is better than gold. Diamond is better than platinum. This is true for raid wanted chest contents and for raid resource loot. So if you choose to drop into a tier lower than you could be in, you will lose resources and ascension rolls.

This is correct only if you don’t care about ascension rolls and resources. If you do care about ascension rolls and resources, then trophies are now very important.

This is mostly correct. If you want to catch up with those who have already spent “considerable time (and most likely money)” then you’re going to have to spend “considerable time (and most likely money)” to do so. What - you want a short cut?

Top players aren’t materially “increas[ing] the gap”, however. Past a certain point players achieve decreasing returns to scale for their investment of time and money. They’re more or less treading water, waiting for you. Go on and catch up.

Teams with 3200 or less power now gives maximum 10k food.

Food scales up to 3500 where the max is 30k.

We can possibly assume that 50k food is max at 3700 team power.

This is all at platinum.

So the devs are telling everyone to get to Diamond and get a team able to beat 4000 power teams consistently so you can see those 60-90k ham raids once again.

Looks like I won’t be speeding up raid chests anymore.

There is no way a 3400 power team is ever going to stay in diamond. Lurk in high platinum maybe, but to really stay there?

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Thank you for that acknowledgement.

Edit: to address the second part of your question first: there’s a lot of fluctuation in cups which is effectively a Monte Carlo process here in game… even when I was running a real defense (not the somewhat infamous all yellow wonder) I’d go up or down +/- 300 cups sometimes in the top ranks and some accounts just don’t seem to get attacked much which I think is a bug but SG support told me to get lost heh. Anyway that would’ve been enough to take me from top 100 to the bottom of Departed.

I meant buffing the ham income specifically:

It’s partly my fault I guess for being so vocal on these forums (with posting some data of my raids) to show the disparity between Gold and Diamond, with Gold flatly being better from a ham / iron perspective and I still gained substantially more useful ascension items from Gold than I did from Diamond (though that’s admittedly small sample size)… all that time I was playing in Diamond on the main I got all of one compass, which isn’t enough to justify the lackluster ham income.

To whit there was absolutely no rational point to playing in Diamond unless you either cared about the leaderboard (I don’t) or have a mandated cup floor in your alliance (I did).

I understand from a game design perspective that there needs to be some limiter on resources gained, but there’s so many things that ■■■■■■ progression in this game that it’s baffling to me why they needed to address it in such a fashion.

To be fair to the developers I haven’t tested this myself yet, but the fact is ham income from raids was how I and virtually everyone progressed in this game as a limited resource (that and recruits)… limiting that even more, just retards everything and I really wonder if the developers understand the mechanics of their game sometimes.

  1. Mercing: been around a while suddenly it’s a problem.
  2. Cup dropping: been an issue complained about for months in various forms
  3. People leveling heroes to 80 in a day which I assume is what people were describing about Alasie and Jimme’s video: this is a DUMB solution to that… note Jimme last I checked is still in Departed and we (well they, I mostly retired) have a cup floor in 2400: that’s not much in the way of additional ham income vs. 2700 (and it was blatantly designed that way) so I may have misunderstood.

It was hard to level a hero to 80 in a go with the storage caps: you basically had to either buy a crapload of rolls (for cheaper leveling) or you had to buy ham doing it with 1/2* and stored trainers.

Ultimately this part of the patch strikes me as a cash grab especially if that’s why they did it, where people who are spending money will just buy ham to get around this limiter (as they were already doing in some cases) and it winds up slowing down everyone else with the current game economy.

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I think there’s another aspect to resource looting. The game has been running for about 15 months, so now inactive accounts are proliferating as a perfectly natural result of attrition. As far as I know, they are never erased.

These inactive accounts find their trophy equilibrium point then just hang around generating food and iron for raiders to steal. While cup droppers have always been able to find targets, I think this ready availability might be a new thing, and judging by the numbers I have read it might be distorting the game economy quite markedly.

Or I could be wrong. It’s just a theory.

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Unfortunately, pre-arena update loot has been better than platinum (for myself and those in my alliance) so all of this doesn’t matter. We’re just getting more and more screwed down the ladder.

My problem isn’t even that there’s a gap between top 100 and myself. That’s going to be a given in any game I play now. The problem I had was that the path to that level of play - it’s no longer something I can reach this year. The game has been out 15 months? Yet it’s going to take me over 12 more to even get into the same tier as them to test my skill (not even to be in the top 100). Just how is that a fair treatment of the player base?

And while they might plateau as far as progress is concerned, that’s a temporary thing. The development team will put off 6* heroes (hopefully) for a while yet… But they will come out or the game will simply stagnate. Do you honestly feel that when we finally start getting more than a single team of 5* we will stand a chance at event rewards at the 6* hero level? The game is only going to continue playing favorites…

That could be right. And if it is, that’s one thing.

But it seems obvious that excluding those accounts from raid rolls with inactivity >5 days would be a much simpler fix, without any of the headaches we have here today.

Heck, they wouldn’t even have to tell us.

So, I can’t buy this as the reason, though I do appreciate your attempt to find reason.

Here’s a fun frickin idea;

Why doesn’t SG just tell us?

@petri

You sworn to frickin secrecy or some such ■■■■■?

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I think you’re right that you now have no way to catch up with top players quickly, unless you choose to spend. That seems fair, to me - spend a pile of cash or grind for a year - given that one or other (or both) of those methods is likely how most of the top players got there.

And I think you’re right that 6* heroes are inevitable, eventually, and when they do come out the top players will fly away again. If you’ve caught up by then you’ll fly with them. If not, you’ll be left behind.

I never thought of pay to play as including food.

The dead player being raided would mean the poor guy is losing cups unless his opponents are inept. That would mean silver level players are saying grace over the carcass…or were.

So here we get into the problem with the whole measuring how much of the persons stash i get when i raid them. The developers said nothing of what cup ammount allows one to clean out the opponants tower.

How many cups must that player have before i can raid them for everything?

Right now, I have been raiding players who on average keep a cup count of 1800 to 2000 cups. They are level 30+ players. Their team power is roughly 200 below the team i use to raid. I raid for only 40K or more in iron. When I raid that persons stash for the 40K iron i get all 40K. Under the new system, how much of that 40K of Iron can I expect to get?

I asked @petri that question like 130 posts ago. I think he has spotty WiFi from his beach vacation or something cause he seems to ignore most of the discussion and pointed questions here :stuck_out_tongue:

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They’re doing just that. Even less than 5 days.

Yeah. They should be. Good good. Carry on :stuck_out_tongue:

I am very angry that I cant farm 60-90k ham guys anymore, but what few people said is that the reroll costing 2k ham makes very dificult to get a good opponent without losing hams, it seems that they want you to face the first guy that pops in the screen, and either win or lose.

I don’t think so, if they wanted that they’d just increase the reroll cost. This change affects a lot more the players with few cups than those with high cups.

I am not really deep into this but one question comes to my mind when I see everybody complaining about „I get max 10k food in a raid“.

Do I not get raided anymore when I do not empty my watchtower? Because when I don‘t empty it you would get 40k ham and since this doesnt happen anymore I don‘t get raided? Hmmmm

Or are the ressources in the watchtower not linked to the ham that you win anymore?

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I’m wondering the same thing!

I don’t specifically know this, but from what I’ve seen in my experience so far and what I’m reading I think it works like:

  1. Enemy gets a percentage of what’s in your WT based upon trophy score.
  2. You lose everything in your WT when you’re successfully raided.
  3. The excess food and iron goes to pay SG gas bill.

That’s just my best guess. Maybe the 7DD guys have this worked out by now and can answer more definitively. It’s entirely possible that this is paying for SG water bill, or maybe even their electric. Unclear.

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